Courtois or Schilke

Krafty934 · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:03 pm Post subject:

Which trumpet would be better to buy, a Courtois Evolution 1 trumpet or any of the Schilkes. I have never played a Schilke so I don't know how it feels like and I have played a trumpet very similar to the Courtois Evo 1. Which trumpet would you guys suggest? Thanks for the help.

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:33 pm Post subject:

Which trumpet did you play similar to the Courtois EVI and how did you like it? Perhaps that's a place to start. Remember, the hardware has to work for you.
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PatchesTheCat · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:46 pm Post subject:

I have never played a Courtois. However I am confident in saying buy a Schilke...You Won't Be Disappointed.

Courtois is usually on the heavier side I think, and made by Leblanc ...which is radically different from the Schilke Concept. So if you aren't mentally, physically, and spiritually prepared for a new freedom in your playing, the Schilke may not be for you. But if you are ready to step through that monumental door, into a world where the sun is brighter, the grass is greener, and the water just tastes better, then a Schilke awaits you my friend.

Join us on the lighter side of life. Trust Schilke. Love Schilke. Play Schilke.

Does your horn manufacturer invoke these kinds of emotions from you? If not, then you don't play a Schilke.

Regards.
ps. Had to make up for my recent posts where the S-word was not mentioned. Thanks to those who noticed this flaw in my writing. I will not let it happen again

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:37 pm Post subject:

If anyone tells you that you should be playing one make of trumpet, be very wary of them. They could just be obsessive (not mentioning anybody in particular, Patches

).

The right instrument for you is exactly that, the right instrument for you.

We are all different, what works for one will not always work for everyone else.

If it is at all possible, try the two instruments next to each other, preferably in the situations that you will be playing in.

Please note (especially all you Schilke fans) I am not saying that you shouldn't buy a Schilke, I am saying that you should try both. You may be one of the people for whom a Schilke really sings, or the Courtois may be the instrument that works for you. We cannot say which will be the one for you, we are not you and haven't heard you.

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:17 am Post subject:

I know that I would choose the Courtios, I have a Schilke and a Courtios Evolution 1 and as much as I like the Schilke the Courtios runs laps around it with tunning, sound, and lyrical ability. And as a correction Courtios trumpets are made by Courtios and imported by Leblanc, last time I called. I believe that leblanc had started acquiring the mandrels and equiptment needed to make them.
_________________
Andrew Fowler
MYNWA
"90% of trumpet music is below high C"

_dcstep · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:36 am Post subject:

The Courtois and Schilkes are all very fine horns, BUT the Evolution (I or II) is like a grapefruit and the Schilke is like an apple. They don't compare, IMHO. Most people that like one will not like the other, unless they are viewed as tools for totally different purposes.

It will be hard for us here to help you make a decision. Ideally you could play both and make a decision, but that is not always possible. If you have to make a decision without playing both, I'd say look toward Schilke as an extremely well executed horn that's closer to the mainstream than the Evolutions.

Happy hunting,

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
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Tim80 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 1415

A vintage Benge!!!

Oops. Not one of your choices was it?

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Tim
Plant City, Florida

[ This Message was edited by: Tim80 on 2003-12-11 20:59 ]

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:12 pm Post subject:

you really shouldn't buy ANYTHING until you learn a lot more about the instruments.
you shouldn't buy ANYTHING until you have a chance to play test it.
you shouldn't buy ANYTHING until you know what you want it to do for you.

you should start by reading the ENTIRE Schilke loyalist.
then the Monette site, then the Bach site.

then buy a B1.
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1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:40 pm Post subject:

That must be a typo James. You must have meant B6, not B1.

I read the Monette site for entertainment purposes. Never really browsed the Bach site.

Regards.

drunkiq · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:13 am Post subject:

no he meant an x3

musiclifeline · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:15 am Post subject:

How did you arrive at those two choices, anyway? There are tons of other brands out there... Yamaha, Bach, Conn, Kanstul, etc.

As far as a better buy, I'm assuming you mean overall value for the money you'll spend. The Schilke will probably be the more versatile horn, fitting more playing situations than the Courtois. There are lots of horns in the Schilke family, so check as many out as you can.

I'll second the idea that, unless you REALLY know what you're looking for, you absolutely must try before you buy.

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:53 am Post subject:

i feel the B1 is THE most bang for your buck.
it can do more different things well than the others.
it's the most "do anything" horn.
and you can find a good used one for a reasonable price.
i think a good used B1 is the most bang for your buck.

ps wwbw.com will send you one to play test.
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used, beat up MAX trumpet, Bach 5V mpc.

[ This Message was edited by: jamesfrmphilly on 2003-12-12 09:55 ]

trumpetmike · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:07 pm Post subject:

As I expected, the Schilke crowd have arrived!!

And the funny thing is, they can't agree which is best!!!

As I said earlier, try as many as possible, see which is best for you!

Ignore anybody who says that one particular make and model is the one that you must be playing on - what do they know about the playing you do, the style you play, or how you sound?

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:29 pm Post subject:

Of course we don't know his playing style, we are just having fun. This is parental argument now, my kid is better than your kid. My Schilke is better than your Schilke.

I am a medium bore blower, my favorite Schilke's are the B6, B7, and S42. I can't handle the larger bores. I owned a S32 for a time and it radically affected my playing in a negative way. Play testing these horns is crucial. They are amazingly diverse in character.

Regards.

Arainach · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:17 am Post subject:

That is an important point - Schilkes play so open that they may seem to be at least a bore size above what is said. When I was testing horns, the Schilke Medium Bore Horns felt just as open as most ML Horns (Yamaha 8335, 8335RGS, Bach 37, etc.) I tried. The B1 felt open for a ML horn, but still in the ML range. But the S32 I bought and still played on was the most open horn I tried all day - more open than a Large Bore Bach 25 or Yamaha 8345. It just had the perfect feel for me; just be aware that the horns to take a certain level of air support. They're great players.

In terms of sound, 95% of sound is the player. With a bit of practice, I can create the same sound on my student line Yamaha or my friend's Bach 37s that I can on my Schilke. I do find, however, that the Schilke horns (all of them, but especially the S series) have a richness and set of beautiful overtones to them. When playing, I'm able to envision "singing through the horn" and just play. Until I tried my uncle's B1, I had no idea what my teachers were talking about when they said that. Schilkes are great horns. I'd go for them any day.

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:29 am Post subject:

Important Point mentioned about the bore sizes. My roommates Gold S22CL plays as open as a .470 Benge and I can't fill either up. The B5 in my opinion is the tightest of all the horns. The B4 is right there too. I play a B6 because it just felt good to me. The S32 for some reason always seemed like a lot of back pressure into my mouthpiece, but the guy I sold it to loved the thing and offered money on the spot for it and I was desperate to sell it.
Schilke's definitely are unique to the individual as far as blow. Excellent point by Arainach. The sound issue is true too. Your sound will be your sound, the horn can definitely help in achieving what you want though.

Regards.

ARB · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:35 am Post subject:

Never played a Courtois, but I love my Schilke S22. I know this isn't much help, so I'll say always blow before you buy.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C

"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing"

Tim80 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 1415

I've owned both a Schilke X3L and a Schilke B1. Much is mentioned about the brightness of Schilke horns but both horns had a rich tone. The X3L especially. The B1 seemed to have a sweeter tone. Both horns were too big for me though. I played a Yamaha 6310Z for a while so I love to get a chance to try a B6, B7 or S42. Schilke has a another thing going for 'em. The valves!!!

2LIP · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:59 am Post subject:

Like what has been said above is not enough.

I wanted to try the Courtois which are imported in Kenosha, WI by LeBlanc/Holton. I had so much trouble just getting a call back from them that if it were me, I would go with a Schilke just based on customer service alone.

Add to that the fact that they make great horns, here in the suburbs of Chicago, IL. Is there a question whether I would buy a great horn from a bunch of craftsman, or buy something that I could not get a call back on?

Schilke all the way. But, I would check out a few others too!

The LIP

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:41 pm Post subject:

Tim80, most of us aren't comfortable with the same mouthpiece on a B1 or X3L that we'd use on a 6310Z or a Bach 37, for instance. If you're ever tempted to go back to a larger horn again, try working on the mouthpiece a little. A little tighter throat and/or backbore can usually resolve the imbalance and endurance issues that you probably encountered. It's tempting to stay with that same big mp because of the big tone that you hear when you go to a big horn. Unfortunately, many of us lose endurance and struggle with range. A mouthpiece better suited to the horn will recover that endurance without losing all of the big tone gain. You'll also gain dynamic range and, in many cases, gain a little range.

All that said, the Yamaha Z is a great horn, particularly if you understand how to play it and not put too much air into and control the slippery slots. (I played one for two years.)

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest