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Plating on the inside of horns...


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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Plating on the inside of horns... Reply with quote

Just wondering if any of you have had experience with having a horn plated and your preferences for avoiding any plating getting on the inside of the horn, particularly the leadpipe section.

Last edited by dstpt on Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like a non-issue to me.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The people I've talked to that know have also told me that no significant amount of nickel or silver gets plated to inside surfaces of pipes or valve ports when no plugs are used.
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Adam R. Getzen
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We plug our horns on the receiver and bell as well as both ends of the valves. Water keys are also plugged. On new horns we plate horns with the slides in. If I wanted to plate the inside of the horn effectively I would have to pump solution through the horn while plating to make sure to get the proper adhesion.

Plating is fine inside the lead pipe if done properly but has no place on inner slide tubes, valve casings, etc.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the Schilke factory we observed a bit of flakey plating inside the leadpipes of new horns. We routinely brushed out the leadpipes to prevent bunging up the valves. I think we used a copper gun bore brush.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The term 'bung' typically is in reference to a plug that is used to seal a hole in the side of a (usually) wooden barrel. That hole in the barrel is where a spigot would be placed.

Jay
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Larry Souza replayed my horn he told me part of the service he provided was to plug the slides and valves before sending it to Anderson’s. This was at least 15 years ago so perhaps they have changed?

Edit: from the FAQ on the Anderson page “Can I mask off engraving and parts I do not want plated?
Since it requires special tape to "mask off" a part of an instrument, we prefer that you indicate to us which places you do not want plated, and we will mask it off with our plating tape. Also, when packing, do not put tape on any place that you want plated or stripped”

So perhaps they expect to do the masking/plugging?
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Gottfried Reiche
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious...what exactly is your concern? What specifically are you trying to avoid, and why?
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think it advantageous to plate the inside of a horn, especially the leadpipe to prevent red rot.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
I would think it advantageous to plate the inside of a horn, especially the leadpipe to prevent red rot.

except
Ed Kennedy wrote:
At the Schilke factory we observed a bit of flakey plating inside the leadpipes of new horns. We routinely brushed out the leadpipes to prevent bunging up the valves. I think we used a copper gun bore brush.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Gottfried Reiche
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professional Opinion:

If you are so concerned about all of this, then it is certainly worth the time and money to have it done correctly, to the highest standards. Send it to Tom Greene, have him do the prep, and plating at Anderson's.

Right after the shut down is the best time to have it plated there anyway...you get the freshest stuff. I've seen horns done right before the shutdown, and right after, and the difference is astounding.

GR
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Speed
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is potentially a big deal.

Bach replaced a 190S37 under warranty for me after it turned out that the valve problems I was having was caused by silver plating on the inside of the tubing flaking off and getting in the valve cluster. My few-weeks-old valves looked like I'd lubricated them with sand.

Running a camera through the tubing left no doubt that the interior flaking was the source of the problem.

It appears to me that it's an isolated problem. Let's face it, a lot of trumpets come out of Anderson's with interior plating that doesn't flake off.

Take care,
Marc Speed
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible that you could specify to Anderson S.P. that you want less than normal time in the plating bath and get what you want.

I've found that if a horn is degreased thoroughly before going to ASP, there's rarely a "flaking" problem. The plating adheres really well and is too thin to cause valve problems. That's one of the things that can happen with new factory instruments - inadequate degreasing and plating flaking off on the inside.

Good to hear Tom Green is still in business - he did a fabulous lacquer job on a horn I restored.
-Lionel
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Adam R. Getzen
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
Recent development this week: I now definitely need a plater that will permit bungs. Anderson does not. Getzen/Edwards uses bungs, but will only (silver) plate their own horns. I guess Kanstul did allow this, but I don't think BAC is up and running with that reportedly acquired equipment, yet. Do any of you know any platers in the U.S. that will allow a horn to be prepped with bungs and shipped directly to be silver plated? Leigh McKinney is sending to me a rimless ("Solar" model) bell made from Britannia silver to have soldered to a fairly new Eclipse Enigma Bb (that is already silver plated). Shipping to the UK is costly (insurance and whatever import fee). I much prefer finding such a plater in order to avoid getting silver on the inside of valve casings and tubing and incurring the added expense and time of having the silver deposit honed out of valve casings, as minute as it may be. Leigh said the horn should be in the tank for about 25-30 minutes vs. the normal 45 minutes or so. This is to place only 10-15 microns of silver on the bell for protection; any deposited on the body of the horn will not matter, according to him. Platers suggestions, anyone?


The info Leigh gave you about times doesn't mean much as different tank setups plate at different rates. We plate horns for Fred Powell. He does all the prep work and we clean/plate them.

The reason we very rarely plate other makes is because if we wreck someone's Bach or Schilke or whatever we aren't in the position to repair them as they were.
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