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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: What does "S" mean on a trumpet mouthpiece? |
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Hey guys,
I bought some mouthpieces, and one of them is very old, it's gold and on it the letter S is written. Does anyone know this mouthpiece? |
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StartingUpAgainAt53 Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 44 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Bach mouthpieces? I have one also. What size?
For Bach mouthpieces S stands for Symphonic and means a larger throat and back-bore than the normal Bach mouthpieces.
Been told they have size 25 throat with size 24 back-bore.
-Marc |
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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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StartingUpAgainAt53 wrote: | Bach mouthpieces? I have one also. What size?
For Bach mouthpieces S stands for Symphonic and means a larger throat and back-bore than the normal Bach mouthpieces.
Been told they have size 25 throat with size 24 back-bore.
-Marc |
Unfortunately there is no name on itđ
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Depends on the brand...
As noted, on Bach's it's a symphonic backbore, IIRC on some Benge CG pieces it meant a different shank. |
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sounds7 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 635 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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On Monette it means slap (Shape of inner cup) |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Giardinelli/Warburton/G.Black and others use S to denote shallow cups... |
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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for replying
Here is a picture
[img]https://ibb.co/WBD3Btt[/img]
I also noticed that i doesn't fit very well in my horn because it's a bit too thin i can play on it good but sometimes i am afraid that it might fall down because it doesn't fit very well inside the tube.[/img][img] |
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ayryq Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Posts: 354 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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_________________ Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Shot in the dark, but the S could stand for âSelmerâ if it doesnât fit well in a modern receiver. Vintage French shanks were a bit different, and the famous âK-Modifiedâ Selmers of the 50s onward weâre originally an attempt to make the horns more compatible with the increasingly popular Bach mouthpieces. For reference, vintage Holton trumpets also had their own shank size in the 20s-40s.
Now, with no further info about your mouthpiece and any other markings, nobody on this page is really going to be able to answer your question. Each manufacturer has their own nomenclature, for the most part. Before Schilke came up with their modern model designations in the later 60s-70s, letters were used, often related to a specific artist for whom they were designed. As mentioned above, Bach âSymphonic Seriesâ mouthpieces have an S. Monette designs from ~2006-7 onward have a cup shape variant called âslapâ designated by an S, and so-forth.
Do some research to find out more about the provenance of your mouthpiece, and then details may follow regarding specifications and that pesky S.
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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qcm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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The profile of this mouthpiece, looks very similar to a Schilke mouthpiece.
Perhaps it's a pre-1970s model?
-Dave _________________ Dave Edwards
Kanstuls, LA Benges and a Selmer picc. |
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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:12 am Post subject: |
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It feels good to play on this mouthpiece, the only problem is that it doesn't fit well in the reciever and i think it might fall down if i hold the trumpet upside down. Anyone has the same problem? Any solutions? |
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boog Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I have an original C.M. Purviance 4*d4w that has the mysterious "S" stamped on the SHANK of the piece. The only one I have ever run across so marked. I have surmised that it means a smaller shank size, ostensibly to reduce the receiver gap, as it will not fit many of my trumpets tightly enough to stay in when you invert the instrument.
I used this piece for a long time when I was playing big band lead. It fit my chops well and had a decent sound for such a shallow piece. I used to wrap teflon plumber's tape around the shank to use it in my horns that had larger diameter receivers.
FWIW, a LOT of old trumpet mouthpieces came unmarked, for some reason. I have a couple old ones, that are old enough to not be Chinese or Japanese knock-offs of existing designs. No telling where yours came from...
It's a neat looking piece, good for your collection (or playing!)
Regards,
Dave |
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crose Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010 Posts: 188
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:03 am Post subject: |
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From an old Schilke mouthpiece chart
16C2
(Formerly Model "S") Has a definite "bite" on the inner edge of the #2 semi-round rim, permitting greater flexibility.
Maybe? |
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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: |
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crose wrote: | From an old Schilke mouthpiece chart
16C2
(Formerly Model "S") Has a definite "bite" on the inner edge of the #2 semi-round rim, permitting greater flexibility.
Maybe? |
Well maybe. but as far as i know Schilke mouthpieces are usually marked
Regards |
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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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boog wrote: | I have an original C.M. Purviance 4*d4w that has the mysterious "S" stamped on the SHANK of the piece. The only one I have ever run across so marked. I have surmised that it means a smaller shank size, ostensibly to reduce the receiver gap, as it will not fit many of my trumpets tightly enough to stay in when you invert the instrument.
I used this piece for a long time when I was playing big band lead. It fit my chops well and had a decent sound for such a shallow piece. I used to wrap teflon plumber's tape around the shank to use it in my horns that had larger diameter receivers.
FWIW, a LOT of old trumpet mouthpieces came unmarked, for some reason. I have a couple old ones, that are old enough to not be Chinese or Japanese knock-offs of existing designs. No telling where yours came from...
It's a neat looking piece, good for your collection (or playing!)
Regards,
Dave |
Thanks that's very useful information! |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like Schilke's early work to me. And the shank looks like it might have a Holton taper (pre-WWII) starting, as I have seen that detail in the turning of some 1930s Holtons. Schilke made his first mouthpieces there and made special ones for Edward Llewelyn (Holton artist and promoter, and teacher/CSO predecessor of both Benge &Schilke). The Llewelyn mouthpieces were turned in some of the details slightly streamlined from this on modern pieces, just like this - but not marked "S".
I think it's an early Schilke, maybe even pre-war earliest Schilke. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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starkadder Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 542
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Tro.sy wrote: | It feels good to play on this mouthpiece, the only problem is that it doesn't fit well in the reciever and i think it might fall down if i hold the trumpet upside down. Anyone has the same problem? Any solutions? |
Duct tape? |
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Tro.sy Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 52
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Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 2:44 am Post subject: |
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starkadder wrote: | Tro.sy wrote: | It feels good to play on this mouthpiece, the only problem is that it doesn't fit well in the reciever and i think it might fall down if i hold the trumpet upside down. Anyone has the same problem? Any solutions? |
Duct tape? |
That's what i did yesterday, and it worked |
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BraeGrimes Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2011 Posts: 269 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think the 'S' is for Scott Tinkler. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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boog wrote: | I have an original C.M. Purviance 4*d4w that has the mysterious "S" stamped on the SHANK of the piece. The only one I have ever run across so marked. I have surmised that it means a smaller shank size, ostensibly to reduce the receiver gap, as it will not fit many of my trumpets tightly enough to stay in when you invert the instrument.
I used this piece for a long time when I was playing big band lead. It fit my chops well and had a decent sound for such a shallow piece. I used to wrap teflon plumber's tape around the shank to use it in my horns that had larger diameter receivers.
FWIW, a LOT of old trumpet mouthpieces came unmarked, for some reason. I have a couple old ones, that are old enough to not be Chinese or Japanese knock-offs of existing designs. No telling where yours came from...
It's a neat looking piece, good for your collection (or playing!)
Regards,
Dave |
Purviance was notorious for grabbing a stock mouthpiece, modifying it for a particular player and NOT marking it in any way. Bob Reeves might be able to clarify the 'S' stamped on the piece. |
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