"lightweight" Conn 22B Early Model

[OldSchoolEuph]

No, Conn didn't build it that way.

I was looking for a back-up 22B, so I just bought a slightly overpriced one on EBay because it looked good (given blurry EBay images) and was represented as the best preserved the seller had ever seen. Well, it wasn't preserved at all, it had been overhauled and plated (in 24K when 20s horns were in 14K - wish EBay photo colors were reliable...). The engraving is almost erased, the serial number and similar markings are erased, and in your hands you can feel how much lighter the horn is. Ringing the bell, an intact 22B bell is dull by comparison (not that that really means anything other than being a test for relative thickness & temper).

I was pretty upset by the disconnect between description and reality, but I took the time to play on it. Now I'm not sure if I want to fight over this or not, because while it's not a 22B sound at all, it is quite interesting. Bright, clear, more like a D trumpet sort of tone. I tried a little of the Haydn on it and, not surprising for a piece written for high pitch trumpets I suppose, it really sounded better on this abused instrument than it did on an intact 22B Early (the EBay is a 1925, my reference is a 1927). Much like playing it on a good Eb, but not nearly as thin a tone.

The horn is more responsive (no surprise given the easily felt lack of mass), and will distort just as easily if pushed. But the tone I would expect of a buffed-to-the-edge-of-existence bell is that of playing on a torn open beer can. This is closer to a full trumpet tone, just very very bright - and I'm not a bright horn person (double-meaning intended).

So now I am stuck wondering what I want to, what I should, do. Is it really possible for incompetence in repair to translate to a legitimate lightweight version of a classic horn? Or is this just a ruined rip-off? My ear for unique instruments and my sense of economic justice are in a heated debate.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[mdarnton]

Honestly, all I get from your post is that this is a horn you want to keep . . . not a hint that you want to send it back.

[aTrumpetdude]

I have come across horns that sound great despite owners attempts to ruin them. I currently have a Conn 8b lightweight with a mismatched student horn leadpipe on it and crude bell work that is just a fantastic player and plays noticeably different than my stock 8b.

In the case of the 8b the price was very cheap so I don't have any problem keeping it around as a player. However I have sent back great playing used horns in the past that I found to have major undisclosed flaws and I think in a case like you described I would return it. Often the honeymoon wears off and if you sell it you'll feel obligated to list all faults and get peanuts for it.
_________________
Scodwell Boston
90's Bach Strad MLV 65GH
1950 Bach Strad 38
1969 Conn 8b Artist
1980 238 CL
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm1qCev_sfof-Bfj5MAMLrQ

[mdarnton]

How much money are we talking? If I stand to lose the equivalent of a couple of fancy dinners out on something that will give me more long term enjoyment than that food, then even overpriced isn't wasted.

[J.D. Heckathorn]

If it plays nice, and you don't miss the $ spent more than the enjoyment you get then that's really up to you. You don't have to be able to rationalize it to yourself to like the horn, sometimes having unconventional gear inspires your sound.

Whether it was overpriced is also relative, if it's this horn
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352630393763

Based on what I define as best condition for a vintage 22B it's the combination overall condition + how much of the condition is original + how it plays. Some are squirrelly, Conn revolutionized mass production of brass instruments but weren't perfect. Plus, these horns are pushing 90-100 years old. Some look ok cosmetically but inside they're corroded. I enjoy vintage horns and use a 1929 Conn 2B as my main horn currently (looking for a new leadpipe soon tho) and it inspires me more than other horns that maybe feel safer in slotting. So allow for the possibility it's cool and you may like the sound you get on it.

If that is the horn in question it's clear from its condition it is not well preserved if that also means in original condition. As you pointed out conn had a different gold plate that looks more brown or amber colored especially with age. If this horn was original condition it could fetch 500-600 but the description indicates very little info on the horn. I'd need at least the abbreviated serial # provided in the description to take it seriously though (like 123XXX).

If you feel like it wasn't described accurately you would be correct if it was advertised as "best preserved"

[OldSchoolEuph]

My 1927 had a rough life and the leadpipe is a bit like rolled 40-grit, but still solid. The valves had flaked and needed significant work. Also the tuning slide had rotted through and had to be replaced. After fixing up though, it plays great. No instability, intonation, or other quirks.

This one is a 1925 I think, though I cant be sure yet if the first two digits are 22 or 23, which could lead to 1926 - but I think the bell rim engraving changed in 26. It's valves have the guide slots worn a bit wide - but I can replace with plastic guides and pad those a bit if necessary. I can also address the felts. The valve clearance is certainly not tight, but not to the point of creating any noticeable frequency-dependent resistance anomalies, and the piston surfaces are quite good. The leadpipe seems intact, though a little worn inside (unlike the 27 there is less wall thickness left on this one though...). The tuning slide is likewise thinned a bit, but appears intact - obviously past experience makes me a little nervous there.

The horn is neither tight nor squirrely, it centers comfortably and has about the same amount of easy flex as my 1927. It has a LOT of bright overtones, but still sings with a decent core - so long as I don't push too hard: then it goes to edge real fast. It's like playing a D trumpet that feels like a Bb.

The finish is a question mark. The plating has at least one contaminant "burn" at the receiver ring, and I am not really sure how thick it is. After buffing away a lot of brass, the surface was masked on the crooks and around the faint engraving and the rest was blasted. Normally I don't like this because the modern glass bead blasting takes big bites out of the brass and essentially work hardens it if done too aggressively. I don't know, but suspect, that the media in this case was walnut shell and the effect is the closest to period matte finish I have seen in modern work. It's quite a contrast between the amateurish over-buffing and the very skillful surface finish.

Without getting into who the seller was, as this may be a case of simple inexperience, I should point out that a full refund was immediately offered. So this is a seller with integrity.

Now I just have to consider the choice of having a very unique new toy vs the realization that should I sell it, I'll be out several hundred.


_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[trUMBet67]

My 1927 was once silver plated.
Than buffered (the engraving slightly visible), than two times lacquered...
When it came to me it sounded a bit dull. I stripedd the laquer with boiling water, clean all, and the 22b lighted up!
Easy playing, great intonation, right clean full spectrum trumped tone, easy high register.. not the sound power as an original weight 1925 22b gold plated or a NYS Special I own, but a really enjoying horn!
_________________
Umberto -
Bb: Taylor Chicago II Lite,Conn 38B,Olds Super,Olds Recording,Conn 22B (3),Bach 180 37 modified
C: SLB Callet New York
Flugel: Getzen Eterna 895S-T
Cornet: Getzen Eterna 800 LB Copper,Conn 28A,B&H Imperial
Piccolo: Schilke Herald Bb/A