Which Trumpet for Big-Band Use ?

trumpet_is_cool · Regular Member Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 37

Hi @all !

I would like to buy next Friday a new Trumpet, i would spend max. 1800 $ , what trumpet for Big-Band use are advisable ? The Trumpet should have sizzle / "Laserswordsound" in upper Register but it should also possible to play sweet Ballads / Solos with it... I would like to test :

- Besson Meha
- Callet Jazz
- Kanstul (which Modell ?)
- Yamaha (which Modell ?)
- Schilke (which Modell ?)
- anyone else ????

What horn would you prefer, what are the pros / cons of these Horns ?

Thanks for advise !!

Dennis

davo · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:59 am Post subject:

This is very difficult because the responses will be based on personal experiences and tastes.

I would guess that any of the trumpets you list are suitable and that all of the models of the Schilke line are "suitable", although each are slightly different, one from the other. I have played or owned all of them except the Besson, including four Schilke models and two Yamaha models.

I would suggest that you also consider what your section mates are playing.

The horn I have personally settled on for the past two years that achieves what I want for big band, including the characteristics you have listed is the Yamaha 6310Z in lacquer.

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:05 am Post subject:

Selmer-Paris Concept TT. Use the search function here to find my extended review.

Retricted to the list you provided, then I'd go with the Schilke B1 or B1L or X3. (I haven't tried the S-model Schilkes).

Dave
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PatchesTheCat · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:21 am Post subject:

Naturally try all these horns, I don't know whether you are a resistance player or like to blow through the trumpet. Each one will offer something different. From your post I am assuming that you will be doing strictly jazz big band so that will tailor my answer to the following. It would also help to know what part you tend to play, my answer for a soloist would be different than recommending for a lead trumpet. You can use pretty much any trumpet in any playing situation with adjustments from your body and mouthpiece. However you did say big band so my answers will be towards lighter horns to assist in the "sizzle" aspect.

Callet:
Stratosphere-Step Bore design finishing at ML bore. Would make a wonderful lead trumpet. Efficient Bore design and adequate resistance to assist on long gigs.
Jazz- Similar to Stratosphere, Step bore to .468 or .470 (I forget), slightly more free blowing but still efficient. Again Excellent Lead Trumpet
Superchops: .470 bore, large bell flare, free blowing horn. Again an excellent lead trumpet with uses elsewhere.

Kanstul:
1500B- I hear this is reminiscent of a Calicchio 1s2. I have not played this horn so I don't know specifics, it does have a light weight bell to assist in brightness.
WB1600- Light weight bell. I have not played this horn either. .460 bore

Yamaha:
6310Z - Very Efficient Step bore design, resistant but free in the upper register. Light weight, lots of sizzle...great horn IMHO.
Try the standard models just in case you prefer the blow better.

Schilke: http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke
Try all models for blow preference. All are pretty much light weight and will smack you in the face with sizzle.
M bores - B6, B7, B4, S42 (heavier than B series) Try these, they are great for big band. The B4,6,7 all have step bores. I use a B6 with beryllium bell.
ML step- B1, B2
ML - B5, S32
L- X3, B3, S22

Selmer:
Concept TT ? - Someone on TH has one and loves the thing, so try it, I have no experience with this model.

Calicchio:
1s2- Very bright commercial sound. I haven't played one but I heard it enough...and probably so have you.

This is my list. Additions?

Regards.
ps. I do highly recommend trying the Schilke models

trumpetmike · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:39 am Post subject:

Well, Patches has already given the best advice - try them all.

I will say up front, I am basically a classical player who only rarely plays big band stuff, but when I do I tend to be put on lead, due to range. I have played on an F Besson (found the Najoom much easier to do this on than the Stamm, despite it being designed for the classical world), Yamaha (my 6335HS is my standard instrument and works fine up to double C) and King Silver Flair (my first "decent" trumpet which still comes out sometimes when I need a slightly edgier sound).
Of the three I have used, I would go for the Yamaha ahead of the Besson, followed by the King. This could just be due to the familiarity of the Yamaha.

Schilke does seem to be a very popular make for this style of playing, definitely worth trying out.

See if you can get a few trumpets out on approval, tat way you can try them out in the appropriate settings, with the band you are to be playing with. You may well find that some instruments fit in a lot better than others.

I know a lot of excellent big band players and there is very little concensus amongst them as to which is best. They are just as bad as the classical players when it comes to agreeing!

jhatpro · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:41 am Post subject:

Good advice to see what the others are playing, but you'll probably find a mix of horns so....the horn I like best for big band is the Kanstul 1504 which is similar to the Bach Strad with the 72 bell and 43 leadpipe. Big sound, projects well, great for lead or jazz, very well made.

You'll undoubtedly get a lot of suggestions, with players expressing their personal preference. In the end, you need to play as many horns as you can and pick the one that plays and sounds best for you.
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plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

Trumpet-is-cool:

Since you have the money available, I suggest you go with a Schilke. Besides being a great trumpet for big band playing, it will be the best long term investment of your money. The resale on these horns is better than most other makes.

For someone on a budget, I think the good old King Silver Flair is the best value horn out there. Bright sound for big band, free-blowing .462 bore, and fast valves. (That describes mine, which is my trusty backup horn.)
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Benge Loyalist · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:07 am Post subject:

Sixties vintage Benge (will have been made in Burbank) model 5x either ML or MLP bore.
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camelbrass · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:32 am Post subject:

Hi,

I actually use my Taylor most of the time but I understand its not the sound you're after. If I need a brighter more focused sound with an 'edge' then I use the Kanstul (very like the Benge). I also like Schilkes for that edge...my favourite is the X3 but I like a big blow, some other guys like the B1 or even the medium bore ones..try all the B models if you can they're all good.

The lighter Kanstuls are great as well..is it the 1502 which has the 1s/2 configuration? I don't think they make 1 bad horn either.

Regards

Trevor

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:43 am Post subject:

Olds Studio, Olds Super, Olds Recording, Olds Mendez . . . all can be had for less than $1800 and all will last you the rest of your life and probably several more lifetimes. Any of these will give you what you say you want (above), and in my opinion, you can't get more horn at any price than you can with Olds.

Rich
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valvepimp · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:50 am Post subject:

In fact, Rich, all four Olds COMBINED can be had for less than $1800 if you shop very carefully. Cosmetics may have to suffer a bit at that price, but it is entirely possible.
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trumpetdiva1 · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:08 am Post subject:

If you have a chance, try out some Bach lightweights, too, as well as the others mentioned. I use mine for big band lead playing. It has sizzle to it.

Janell Carter
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bluenote · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 366

For an efficient design, I would suggest trying a Mariachi Premiere by Kanstul. It's supposed to be a copy of the famous Conn 38b. It's a great playing and sounding horn. When I was shopping for a new horn, I compared the Premiere with the Yammie 6310Z, and to me, the Premiere smoked it. Just my opinion, though!

Kanstul also makes a Chicago line, which is supposed to be copies of the Chicago Benge trumpets. Kanstul does an excellent job of copying old horn designs with adding some improvements.

NTlead · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:27 pm Post subject:

This is the way it works for a lot of people, you should still try them out:

Besson Meha will do what you said you wanted it to do.

Kanstul 1500B will most definitely cover that brilliant high note stuff, but I don't know that I'd trust it on ballads.
Kanstul 1504 should do it all.
Kanstul Wayne Bergeron should do it all and look awesome too.

Yamaha 6310Z (Bobby Shew) is real nice.

Never played the Callet Jazz (and don't kick off the other Callets until you've played em)

A lot of trumpets can easily be made to do the things you've asked. DOn't forget about the mouthpiece, though. THe depth and rim size of your mpc. will make just about as big of a difference as the trumpet. (Only exaggerating a little)

You've got a good list so far though.

Good Luck

Graham Altham-Lewis · Regular Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 31

Try them all out and have fun! I currently play a Yamaha 6335HS and I like it very much. It is suited to all situations. It can be nice and mellow/rich for solos and if you use the right mouthpiece it can be made to scream as a lead trumpet. My friend also plays lead trumpet on this Yamaha with the Vizutti Signature mouthpiece(quite shallow) and he can make it sound amazing on solos and when he plays up high it sizzles and leads the band well enough! Having said that I am currently buying a Schilke B1 as when I compared it side by side to my Yamaha it had that WOW factor for me. In my experience the Yamaha is still a very good horn and I do like it but as everyone else has said it is very personal what works for you.

Good luck!
Graham.

JasonHarrelson · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:43 pm Post subject:

If you are serious about purchasing a horn and need it next Friday, then I suggest you are throwing your money away. Consider giving yourself more time. Ask dealers for demo horns and play each one for at least a few days. Taking advice from a bunch of people on the internet isn't helpful unless you walk away with some concrete understanding of how to test new horns yourself. There are a zillion different horns out there and the only way to know which ones are right for you is to actually play them. The Brasswind is a great place to do this as they probably have the largest selection of new horns in the US.

Good luck!

Jason Harrelson
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trumpet_is_cool · Regular Member Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 37

Hi !

Thanks for all replys !
Today i bought my new Trumpet :

- French Besson Classic silver plated (the Dealer tolds me that the classic is the Meha ?!?)

I tryed much Horns (Kanstul,Yamaha,Selmer,Bach....)all was great ! But the Callichio 1s2 and the Besson was ,after testing, my Favorites, i choosed the Besson while they 800 $ cheaper as the Callichio 1s2 was but only minimal (nearly not noticeable) bader is ... The Besson has a little less sizzle as the Callichio ....

I hope i did a good choice...What`s your Impressions from the Besson ? Some Details:
On the Bell "French Besson * Classic" , 3rd Slide with Amati Water Key, Tuning Slide ("D" Form) with Standard Water Key, Aluminium Case,1st and 3rd Valve Trigger (3rd Valve with a fixed Ring)

The Dealer tolds me that this modell is since 1/2 year or so out of Production and was made by Kanstul (but no USA Stamp on the Trp. ?!?) and some kind of "rare" but dealers tell a lot to sell their Trumpets....Where can i see if it has a Naoom Leadpipe ?

Thanks for all informations about the Besson and please excuse the not perfect English (I`m from Germany)

Dennis

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:47 am Post subject:

My vote goes to the Callet jazz, it is a killer lead horn, yet it has so much to offre in every genre. I love mine.
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bgwbold · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:34 pm Post subject:

you wrote:
- French Besson Classic silver plated (the Dealer tolds me that the classic is the Meha ?!?)
============================

The French Besson Classic was a completely different model from the Meha over here in the USA. The Meha had "MEHA" stamped on the bell. I had the Classic in a C, but have played the Meha in a Bb. There was nothing wrong at all with the Meha, but the Classic was also a very nice playing horn in C. If it turns out that you do not have a Meha, you are not missing out on anything in my opinion.

Mike

Bruce Lee · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:42 pm Post subject:

Just a quick note on the Callet trumpets... the Jazz, and the Stratosphere are the current lines being manufactured. The Jazz has the Expandabore(TM) design, which expands from the average .346" venturi to a full .470" bore where the lower leg of the tuning slide tubing enters the third valve port. The Stratosphere features the same bell design as the Jazz, but it's a .460" - ML bore horn.

The Superchops model was available in a .460" or .464" bore. It featured the heavier Mazereau (early French Besson not Kanstul) designed bell, which had a slower bell taper, opening up to a 5 1/4" inch bell. While it is currently unavailable, it is one of the finest projecting trumpets ever made.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit!

Happy Holidays!

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[ This Message was edited by: Bruce Lee on 2003-12-19 17:43 ]