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thomasjet123 Regular Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:42 am Post subject: Lisp problems |
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Hi all
I am currently struggling with my double tonguing and can't triple tongue. This is partially due to the roof of my mouth being lower than it should be, giving my tongue less room to move (hence the reason i have a lisp).
I have been practising double tonguing for about a year now and can kind of do it but my single tongue is way faster so its not worth using. However i could do with it for pieces i'm working on like the Timofei Dokschizer cadenza in the Arutjunjan.
Does anyone have any idea of how i can work around my problem?
Thanks
Thomas |
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geigerjt New Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:53 am Post subject: |
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I would recommend just practicing the K tongue by itself. There's some good exercises in Allen Vizzutti's Method Book (technical studies book) and a good explanation on tonguing in Clarke's Characteristic Studies (not the technical studies). Of course, Arban's exercises on multiple tonguing are more than enough.
Also, if your single tongue is fast that should be helping triple tongue if you're going T T K, maybe just trying it a little slowly for focus and clarity. Good luck and have fun! |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:00 am Post subject: |
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There is nothing quite as frustrating as working on K-tonguing. It will make you feel worse than a rank amateur, and it doesn't appear to get better for a long time. I would have sworn that I had made no progress at all after months of regular practice. Then one day I was working on an etude and it all began to fall into place.
Do the work. I recommend Clarke Technical Studies with alternate tonguing models.
- Slurred all
- Single-tongue all
- Slur two, tongue two
- K-tongue all
- Double tongue all
- Triple tongue all _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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trpt.hick Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2632
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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A lisp is usually caused by the front of the tongue being tied, or somewhat tied, to the floor of the mouth by a web-like tissue (frenulum) that should have been snipped within a day or so after a baby is born. Doctors look for this so the child will not develop speech problems later.
I have never heard of a lisp caused by a low roof of the mouth, but I suppose anything is possible. If you haven't consulted with a medical doctor about the speech problem to be 100% certain that the slow double-tonguing is caused by a low roof, you might check with one. Some adults get the frenulum clipped to free up the movement of the tongue, which might really help your trumpet playing. Sounds gruesome, I know, but it may be the only way to cure the problem if this is the actual cause. If a low roof is the real cause, I have no idea what might be done to help.
Seems to me that if single-tonguing is going well, double and triple-tonguing should be able to work well, too, with the guidance of a really good trumpet teacher. Single, double, and triple tonguing should all be articulated in the same general area.
Dave Hickman |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:52 am Post subject: |
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trpt.hick wrote: | A lisp is usually caused by the front of the tongue being tied, or somewhat tied, to the floor of the mouth by a web-like tissue (frenulum) that should have been snipped within a day or so after a baby is born. Doctors look for this so the child will not develop speech problems later.
...
Some adults get the frenulum clipped to free up the movement of the tongue, which might really help your trumpet playing. Sounds gruesome, I know, but it may be the only way to cure the problem if this is the actual cause. |
FWIW I have a friend who in his 30s had his frenulum clipped. He wasn't a horn player, nor did he have a lisp. He just wanted to be able to stick his tongue out further to improve his kissing and related activities. Yes, I'm serious. Later he commented that it was to worst and most painful thing he'd ever done. I didn't ask if it acheived his desired objectives. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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harryjamesworstnightmare Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 167
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Be the ball.
www.rogerrocco.net
Read it all. Your answer is on his blog. _________________ Brian James
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Bach Strad 43 Sterling Silver Plus
Getzen Proteus
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Getzen Custom 3850 Cornet
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Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn |
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