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jazzman99 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 535
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Finale or Sibelius |
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I wasn't really sure where to post this, but which do you guys prefer, and why?
It's about time that I get software for college, and Musescore isn't on the list. I've heard that many people love Finale, but I've also heard that many people hate it. Same for Sibelius.
Thanks guys! _________________ Proverbs 15:1
(The last) Yamaha 9335V Allen Vizzutti w/ Yamaha Allen Vizzutti MP
Yamaha 8445 C W/ Yamaha Allen Vizzutti MP
Jupiter 1700R Piccolo W/ Yamaha Allen Vizzutti MP
Kanstul 1525 w/ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Extreme #1.25 |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8957 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Finale. Had it for many, many years and it is/was by far the most widely used notation program back then. Everyone I was working with used Finale. When Sibelius came out with a new much more friendly user interface, Finale took some hits, and rightly so. It was very user-hostile and Sibelius caused a lot of folk to switch. Since then the interface has gotten much, much better although any powerful program has a learning curve. Finale also expanded their import/export features and kooked up with Garritan to offer much better sounds (though I don't really take advantage of them personally). That said I have little experience with Sibelius and none recent (within the past few years). I have friends who stayed with Finale, some switched but have come back to Finale, and some stuck with Sibelius.
We have some composers/arrangers on TH that will likely have more in-depth experience and contacts.
FWIWFM - Don _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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loweredsixth Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 1846 Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Finale has a MUCH steeper learning curve than Sibelius. I've been using it for about 13 years, so now that I know how to use all of its features I have no reason to even consider switching programs. If I was just starting out though, I may choose Sibelius, or after their next big release maybe Dorico. _________________ The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8345 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Finale or Sibelius |
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jazzman99 wrote: | I wasn't really sure where to post this, but which do you guys prefer, and why?
It's about time that I get software for college, and Musescore isn't on the list. I've heard that many people love Finale, but I've also heard that many people hate it. Same for Sibelius.
Thanks guys! |
Frankly, I doubt many people love Finale. I think many people use it, some of those same people hate it (despite using it) and many simply tolerate it. I doubt it inspires affection.
I've been using Finale since version 3.5. It was truly terrible then, about as unfriendly as a hungry hyena. It's fine if you know how to do whatever you're trying to do. If you have to try to tweak something that you haven't done before, well.... good luck to you.
I knew some people that did support for them before they got bought and moved. Talk about a thankless job, even in that thankless and frustrating area... _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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lakejw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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I've been using Sibelius for ~14 years, starting with version 3, and recently upgraded to version 8, which will be their last "issued" version. They're moving to a subscription-based model, which requires a $20 monthly access fee to use the license and receive software updates.
Pretty sad. I love Sibelius - I've got my processes down very quick, learned virtually everything you can do on the engraving side of things. But I doubt I will ever be paying that monthly fee.
So, unfortunately, my recommendation to someone just starting out would be to look elsewhere. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2351 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Finale. yes, it has (had) a steep learning curve - that's always been one of the knocks - BUT it does everything and much improved over the years. And really, It's not THAT hard to learn. Mostly, there are so many options that is difficult at times to find the specific little "knit-noid" thing you want to do.
Now it also links well with "SmartMusic" which is an awesome programs for students - both for school bands and individual use. I use my kids account all the time to play solos, jazz improve, and more.
And unfortunately, Sibelius is changing.. not sure where it will end up. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2200 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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just change the measure numbers to below the measures and not above and I'll be happy with either
just look at old hand copied Nestico tunes and you'll see the artwork
of real copyists at work..
sadly that art in now dead!
rant over _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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lakejw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | And unfortunately, Sibelius is changing.. not sure where it will end up. |
The funny thing is, the software has barely changed over the last 5-6 versions. It's only the licensing that has me worried about the future. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I've used a few of the less expensive versions of Finale and was able to produce what I needed. I never found it as intuitive as other music scoring software, but I was always able to find what I needed by typing a question into a browser, like "how do I [whatever my question is] in finale?" For example, I might type "how do I add a stave in finale?" or whatever. The answer always came right up and I didn't stay stumped for long.
Too bad Musescore isn't on the list. I've been using that lately and I like it. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2200 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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i've used Finale since the beginning back circa 1992 or 93
i had a crack with no manual and spent many an hour figuring it out...... _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1414
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I've been using Sibelius for almost twenty years, beginning with version 1.4, and upgrading over the years, now at 7.5. Several years ago, the Sibelius product was sold to Avid, who initially abandoned it, and fired the software engineers who had worked on it for years.
More recently, they're "revived" it as subscription product, and if you don't subscribe, you don't get the bug fixes to the bugs that you've bought (and there are plenty), and you'll have to pay for customer service. They've hired some new software engineers, scattered around in several different counties, who obviously don't know the product well, and every release since version 8 has been reviled by the user community, for the new bugs and the utter lack of any suitable testing. Every release has broken something that used to work, and you have to keep up your subscription to get the fixes, (if they're ever available). They just pump out minor revisions that haven't really been tested, probably because they have some bean allotment to fulfill.
Two decades ago, I compared Finale with Sibelius, and chose Sibelius. I used to recommend Sibelius to others. I can't recommend it to anyone any more.
I'm not very familiar with Finale, but the Sibelius team that Avid fired (when Avid originally tossed Sibelius in the dumpster) is now developing a new product called Dorico; not yet available as far as I know. I'll be checking out Finale and looking forward to Dorico.
If you can find a retail copy of Sibelius 7.5 (which you can no longer buy from Avid), it might worth it if it's a really cheap price. But stay away from any version 8 or later, and don't expect any customer support from Avid for 7.5. I think they'll help you with problems installing 7.5, but then you're on your own. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2351 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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homebilly wrote: | just change the measure numbers to below the measures and not above and I'll be happy with either |
adjustable/controlable in Finale
one of my peeves, don't trash the program (Finale or Sibelius) because you don't know how to use it. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2427 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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dstdenis wrote: | Too bad Musescore isn't on the list. I've been using that lately and I like it. |
I used Finale for many years. It got the job done, has a rich set of features. But it wasn't always intuitive, and not always worth the struggle. Also for my needs, I wasn't sure it was worth the price.
I realize the OP isn't able to consider MuseScore. But let me echo dstdenis's comments for those who can. I've been using MuseScore for more than 5 years. The long-awaited version 2 upgrade is excellent. And the price (it's free) can't be beat.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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reedman1 Regular Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2013 Posts: 76 Location: Cold Spring, NY
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I have used Sibelius for a long time. Before that, I used Finale, Composer's Mosaic, and the unhappily defunct Igor. Sibelius is pretty efficient to use, and has solved a lot of the problems of note and lyrics entry in a satisfying way. But the previous posters are correct - Avid has not treated Sibelius well, and are now onto an annoying and expensive rent-ware model. Currently, I'm using Notion, from Presonus. It's nowhere near as efficient as Sibelius, and it's got some shortcomings and bugs, but I really like it. One big difference between Notion and Sibelius: Notion has much better playback. One more: they only charge you once (per version), and the price is reasonable. I will be interested in seeing Dorico when it comes out. Now, about your notation program needs: you will need to output scores in MusicXML so that teachers with other software can read them, and you may need to print them. Sibelius is good on printing; Notion less so. I don't know how good Finale is at present. Whatever you choose will be good; I don't think there's an honest best notation software right now. _________________ All the instruments of joy... |
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Paul Tomashefsky Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 733 Location: Worcester, MA
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Neither . . . . I have used Overture music notation since 1996 and it is very user friendly
_________________ "Life Beats down and CRUSHES the soul, and Art reminds you that you have one" Stella Adler
"Music washes away the Dust of Everyday Life"
Art Blakey
"If you practice...It will come" Field of Trumpet Dreams |
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StupidBrassObsession Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:12 am Post subject: |
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I use Finale for 3-6 hours most days.
Honestly, it doesn't matter that much which you use (unless you are after a job doing copy for a publisher which means using their choice anyway), what matters is how well you can use it.
Don't get caught up in the software debate. Pick one and stick with it. With Finale, when you run into something you can't work out, don't assume there isn't a way, because normally there is. The help forum is...helpful... |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2200 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | homebilly wrote: | just change the measure numbers to below the measures and not above and I'll be happy with either |
adjustable/controlable in Finale
one of my peeves, don't trash the program (Finale or Sibelius) because you don't know how to use it. |
uh, i absolutely DO know how to use it!
i was trashing the users first then the programs for having it set that was as the default. Have they NEVER read a correctly copied part??? _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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jazzman99 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 535
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys! I've used Musescore for the last few years, so I'm pretty bummed it wasn't on the list. I didn't know about Sibelius being bought out and going on a monthly regiment, thanks for that update. Looks like it's Finale for me. _________________ Proverbs 15:1
(The last) Yamaha 9335V Allen Vizzutti w/ Yamaha Allen Vizzutti MP
Yamaha 8445 C W/ Yamaha Allen Vizzutti MP
Jupiter 1700R Piccolo W/ Yamaha Allen Vizzutti MP
Kanstul 1525 w/ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Extreme #1.25 |
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Fuzzy Dunlop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2011 Posts: 630
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Any of you guys have a problem with PDFs on Sibelius 7? Specifically, the thickness of the staff lines. There is an issue specific to Sib 7 where the staff line thickness is uneven (one or two very thick dark lines and the rest are very thin or gray/fuzzy). Makes reading PDFs on an iPad very difficult.
I don't think I ever have this issue with printed parts, just the way PDFs exported from Sibelius 7 are drawn. It also seems to go away if I zoom way in on a PDF, but of course then I can only see a very small portion of the part.
Anyone else experience this?
Here is a thread that seems to address this issue, though no real solution is ever discovered: Sib. 7.0: Staves have inconsistant line thickness
I've been so frustrated by this that I have considered switching to Finale. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12681 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with switching is the cost of either one is so much you hate to throw away the money. |
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