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Bb trumpet backbore



 
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picctpt33
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject: Bb trumpet backbore Reply with quote

What do you find the ideal backbore for Bb trumpet to be?
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chrisf3000
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find a stock backbore (Bach #10 or Greg Black #7) to be a good one for Bb trumpet. Throats are a different story, but I believe the stock backbore was designed for the Bb trumpet.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

V. Bach seemed to think it depended on the cup design.

TRUMPET AND CORNET
Models without letters - No. 10 backbore“
A” Cup Models - No. 24 backbore“
B” Cup Models - No. 7 backbore“
C” Cup Models - No. 10 backbore“
D” Cup Models - No. 76 backbore“
E” Cup Models - No. 117 backbore“
F” Cup Models - No. 76 backbore“
V” Cup Models - No. 25 backbore
From the Bach Mouthpiece Manual
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trumpet_cop
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
V. Bach seemed to think it depended on the cup design.

TRUMPET AND CORNET
Models without letters - No. 10 backbore“
A” Cup Models - No. 24 backbore“
B” Cup Models - No. 7 backbore“
C” Cup Models - No. 10 backbore“
D” Cup Models - No. 76 backbore“
E” Cup Models - No. 117 backbore“
F” Cup Models - No. 76 backbore“
V” Cup Models - No. 25 backbore
From the Bach Mouthpiece Manual


Not really sure what you're trying to say here... So the cups all have different backbores. I read once that Bach actually intended the letter to match the key of horn you were using.

As far as backbores on Bb? whatever suits your fancy. A 10 works fine, or you could get away with using the Bach 7. I think the throat makes a bigger difference as it actually determines the amount of air.
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Bb trumpet backbore Reply with quote

picctpt33 wrote:
What do you find the ideal backbore for Bb trumpet to be?


I find the stock Schilke C backbore to be my favorite all around backbore for Bb. Not for lead or commercial, but absolutely love it for everything else. Slightly more open than a Bach 10, but it has lots of core and color for me.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backbore is at least as important as throat size.
Backbore length affects throat length (if total length is constant) and throat length is important both for intonation and resistance feel.

Backbore size/shape also affects resistance, intonation, articulation and sound.

Different cup depths/shapes combined with “gap”, leadpipe and horn variables will “want” a certain backbore size/shape. To a lesser extent the players own variables will play a part in how the backbore “matches” a particular cup/rim/gap/lead pipe/horn

By the way, Bach mouthpieces can have really pronounced variation in backbore size, and it’s hard to know what you have unless you have a backbore reamer or some other kind of mandrel/ink system to use, and most people or shops don’t have that.
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Charlie Jones
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For many people, the Bach 10 backbore (stock on all "c" cup mouthpieces) is a perfect match with their Bb trumpet. I also know multiple great players who swear by the Stork "C" backbore, both on Bb and C trumpets (it blows more freely than the stock Bach backbore, but its unique shape allows it to retain the focus and clarity one often loses on traditional large backbores).

I also think it's important to note that in addition to being balanced with your horn, a proper mouthpiece is also balanced with itself. From my personal experience, the mouthpiece journey is most successful when one finds a complete mouthpiece that responds quickly and evenly with their horn, as opposed to experimenting with isolating certain components of their current setup.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on the Bb trumpet.

On my main horn, which is quite open and free blowing, I prefer a Bach 1.5C with a 26 throat and a 24 backbore, more open than the stock 1.5C.

However, on my backup trumpet, which is not as open, I prefer a 1.5C with a 26 throat and the no. 10 backbore, not as open as the other one.

I think it is all very individual and think you might enjoy experimenting.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One evening, back in about 2007 or so, my brother-in-law and I were at Ferguson Music (The Horn Guys) in La Crescenta. They were closing out their Kanstul modular mouthpiece stock. I tried a number of back bores with my B3C Woody (probably) top. There was one that had a tag wrapped around it that said 7, but the stamp on the shank said 24.

I had played some number of various back bores that afternoon, but when I played this one, my brother-in-law took in a surprised breath and replied, "That one opens up a whole new level of sound!" I heard it, too, so I bought it. Eventually, I settled on a B3D brass top for it and had Jim New bore it out with a #22 throat reamer.

To this day, I think it gives me the best combination of brilliance, richness, flexibility and stability, range and sound of any back bore I've ever played. The B3D has a rim shape and size that is so close to the Curry 5 rim on my variety of Flip Oakes mouthpieces that I scarcely can tell them apart.

These days, I'm using this mouthpiece for my Bb trumpet.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian, how did it effect your endurance?
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bb trumpet backbore Reply with quote

picctpt33 wrote:
What do you find the ideal backbore for Bb trumpet to be?


Varies depending on the cup.

On both the Bach 3B and a Bach 1-1/2B I have, the Frost MTV works very well. The Frost MTV backbore is a "10-style shape" and was copied from an "outstanding Mt. Vernon 1C", so it's probably an older 10 backbore.

In my collection is an unmodified Bach Corp 3C (made between 1965 and 1969) that works fairly well for me on Bb, but works quite well on Eb trumpet. This may be an older 10 as well.

I have a Laskey 80C top paired with a Bach 117 that works phenomenally well on Bb.

I have a custom top made by Jim New that is quite shallow and works very well with a Giardinelli 4 backbore (Kanstul made).

But on no mouthpiece does a modern Bach 10 or Bach 7 backbore work, at least for me. I find them to be hideously out of tune in the upper register (read: flat) and very stuffy.

It is my opinion that the stock backbores that Bach pairs with the different cups were designed to be the least objectionable to the greatest number of players. Amateur players may not object to them, but players looking for just the right equipment could get custom work done. There are players who use stock mouthpieces, such as Mike Sachs who uses a Stock 1-1/2C on Bb.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpet-cop wrote:
...not really sure what you're trying to say here... So the cups all have different backbores. I read once that Bach actually intended the letter to match the key of horn you were using."

Yes the Bach letter cups have different backbores. So if I like a Bach 5B - it may be the cup style, the #7 backbore, or the combination of the two. Fortunately we can now order tops and backbores threaded to find out.
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Pete
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Bb trumpet backbore Reply with quote

picctpt33 wrote:
What do you find the ideal backbore for Bb trumpet to be?


There is no one answer. It is what works for you. I use a Warburton 4*, NY, H, 5*, 7* on my 5M and 5 MC tops. A Monette B9, Monette B6, a Pickett 5CD/10-5 bb are also in the mix.

It depends on how you play, what horn you play, what resistance you prefer and what sound you are trying for.

Pete
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