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Scuba Steve Regular Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:37 am Post subject: Post Mt. Vernon Mouthpiece |
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I have seen a few post from people wanting to sell their "post Mt. Vernon" equipment, especially mouthpieces. I thought that everything Bach has produced since 1965 was "post Mt. Vernon." Am I missing something here? _________________ Catalina Aluminum 53 Tank Brush w Valve
Mares Trilastic Rash Guard Shorts
Oceanic F10 V3 Free Diving Watch
Aqua Lung Zephyr Mask |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the price. |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I’d be curious to know in what years the vertical fraction was stamped on the mouthpieces. Post? |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I think it's just understanding how searches work...
Sellers knowing that there will be buyers searching for Mt Vernon stuff, and by putting "post Mt Vernon" the searches will show their items - early corp stuff might be a close second best for some buyers and if the price difference is enough they might just go for it. |
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Scuba Steve Regular Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:01 am Post subject: |
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So, you guys are saying it's all about a little snake oil along with some smoke and mirrors. I thought so. Thank you. _________________ Catalina Aluminum 53 Tank Brush w Valve
Mares Trilastic Rash Guard Shorts
Oceanic F10 V3 Free Diving Watch
Aqua Lung Zephyr Mask |
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nowave Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 453 Location: brooklyn
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I read it a different way... There’s a seller on eBay (frisco1227) that’s turned me on to pieces from the 1965-69 period. Maybe “early Elkhart” is a better term? In any event, he claims that pieces from this period use the same cutters and the slightly heavier blanks from the Mt Vernon era.
If you’re inclined to believe the Mt Vernon hype, it’s worth trying one of these at a much lower price. I had a 3C from this era and it was excellent. Of course at the end of the day, every single piece is an individual specimen, and there are gems and dogs from every period. |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I do agree nowave, early Elkhart stuff plays great and I personally prefer it to current...
But the reason he's calling it post Mt Vernon will be because it gets more search hits.
The Mt Vernon 3C I had was noticeably different from the no dot corp 3C I had at the same time, same goes for the 1.5C pieces I had - in both cases I liked both (and chose to keep just the Corp's because the Vernon's were worth more to sell and harder to replace if I'd had to). |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the corp no period mpcs have a 28 hole. Believe it or not. |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1551 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I can testify to this Early Elkhart idea too. For years, I played a Bach 5C from the transition year, 1964-65. It is like a Mount Vernon and is closest to a current 1.5C. It played great but got a little banged up over the years. When I went to replace it, I wound up with a 1.5C. Have seriously thought of getting it replicated. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
Bass Tr: BAC Custom
Nat. Tr: Nikolai Mänttäri Morales Haas replica |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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So - does that mean when Chet Baker played a Bach 5C, he was actually playing a 1.5C? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I've gone back to a Mt Vernon 3C for most Bb and C work, it's really different from any early Elkhart or more modern 3C I've encountered (several dozen examples), and it works a little better overall (for me.) |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I know there are tons of forums on this, but I'm always confused with which Bach 3C's are which when it comes to year groups, "and that special sauce". _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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johntpt 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Feb 2002 Posts: 2284 Location: Toluca, Mexico
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Check the link below for more specific info,
The Corp mouthpieces without a period after the Corp are considered to be some of the finest ever made by Bach and are highly sought after by some players.
JU
https://www.trumpetjunkie.com/datingbachmouthpieces.htm |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for this. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Joshua712 Regular Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 Posts: 64
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Technically yeah any piece made after the move to Elkhart could accurately be called “Post Mt Vernon”, but generally speaking people tend to use it to refer to mouthpieces made from roughly 1965-1969 or thereabouts. People often refer to horns built then as “early Elkhart” but it’s sort of rare to see mouthpieces classified as such. Usually though, people identify the vintage of Bach mouthpieces by its stamping, ie “Corp”, “Corp.”, vertical fraction, diagonal fraction, etc _________________ JPS |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:26 am Post subject: |
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As a collector, I'm always looking for something cool, but could never find or figure out which one of these was worth the price. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Though I was a little bit cynical I have to admit that from my period that I collected 7C mouthpieces, I still own a 7C VINCENT BACH CORP" (no period) 1965-1969 for cornet that is by far my best 7C mouthpiece. I don't use that size anymore but it has always be the question for me why the Bach company simply did not copy that mp instead of producing the present-day 7C's with the very uncomfortable sharp rim. |
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A.N.A.Mendez Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 5228 Location: ca.
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have a friend/mentor who's been a repair tech and in the business since the 1940s, (he's 89) told me when they moved to Elkhart it was in the winter, there were union troubles. The big bosses told the crew to pack up the machinery, blanks, mandrels etc. for the move. After they left the disgruntled works threw everything in the snow and walked out.The bosses didn't find out till the following week, everything was rusted and ruined. That is why Mt. Vernon stuff is sought after, no way to replicate...
He swears this story is true. _________________ "There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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A.N.A.Mendez wrote: | I have a friend/mentor who's been a repair tech and in the business since the 1940s, (he's 89) told me when they moved to Elkhart it was in the winter, there were union troubles. The big bosses told the crew to pack up the machinery, blanks, mandrels etc. for the move. After they left the disgruntled works threw everything in the snow and walked out.The bosses didn't find out till the following week, everything was rusted and ruined. That is why Mt. Vernon stuff is sought after, no way to replicate...
He swears this story is true. |
That's a cool story, and if true, tragic as well. Thank you for it. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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