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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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 Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Five post new “members” |
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Ok, the rules here are that after five forum posts you can list something for sale in the marketplace. So, yeah, you’re technically following the rules.
But just in case some of you might be wondering why you’re not getting much response to your ads, this has a lot to do with it: this is not Craigslist. Regular contributing members here get a sense of “knowing” each other, and because of that are far more likely to buy something from another member. People who throw up five quick, meaningless inane posts just to gain access to the marketplace simply will not be trusted by many of us, hence....your stuff doesn’t sell.
Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do.
Take from that what you will.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9032
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Five post new “members” |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do. |
Well I do, Brad. Here's a +1.
And, unfortunately, the suggestions about changing the marketplace rules fall flat. Totally ineffective.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Five post new “members” |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do. |
Well I do, Brad. Here's a +1.
And, unfortunately, the suggestions about changing the marketplace rules fall flat. Totally ineffective. |
Thanks for that!
You’re correct, I’m not sure why there is resistance to change the rules, but there is.
On another unrelated forum (timepieces) that I sometimes frequent, you need 50 posts before you can sell anything. I don’t know what the number should be, but five is just too low, IMO. It’s just too easy for someone to toss up five often stupid comments just to sell here and then split, that’s what Craigslist is for.
I guess our alternative is to just not buy from any of these guys, but I still don’t understand the minimum (only) five post rule.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Five post new “members” |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do. |
Well I do, Brad. Here's a +1.
And, unfortunately, the suggestions about changing the marketplace rules fall flat. Totally ineffective. |
The only thing worse are the people who post complaints about it knowing doing so doesn’t help. 
(This post is mostly a joke, but does point out the irony.) |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Five post new “members” |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do. |
Well I do, Brad. Here's a +1.
And, unfortunately, the suggestions about changing the marketplace rules fall flat. Totally ineffective. |
The only thing worse are the people who post complaints about it knowing doing so doesn’t help.
(This post is mostly a joke, but does point out the irony.) |
Well....ok....sort of. What prompted me to post this was a recent group of especially inane posts by guys wanting to sell here. And I did post it here in “The Lounge”, not in another inappropriate forum.
Does pointing out (again, I know) this five post thing help? Doubtful. Waste of time and cyber space? Probably. But there are lots of repetitive discussions on the forum that are probably equally wasteful. This place is, after all , just a (mostly) harmless source of entertainment for people with like interests.
We’re all free to read or not read anything we see here. When I see a thread about something like “which mouthpiece does _____ use?” I generally just skip past it, because I’m not interested and think it’s sort of a waste of time, but I don’t really have a problem with those who do like that sort of discussion.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Five post new “members” |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do. |
Well I do, Brad. Here's a +1.
And, unfortunately, the suggestions about changing the marketplace rules fall flat. Totally ineffective. |
The only thing worse are the people who post complaints about it knowing doing so doesn’t help.
(This post is mostly a joke, but does point out the irony.) |
Well....ok....sort of. What prompted me to post this was a recent group of especially inane posts by guys wanting to sell here. And I did post it here in “The Lounge”, not in another inappropriate forum.
Does pointing out (again, I know) this five post thing help? Doubtful. Waste of time and cyber space? Probably. But there are lots of repetitive discussions on the forum that are probably equally wasteful. This place is, after all , just a (mostly) harmless source of entertainment for people with like interests.
We’re all free to read or not read anything we see here. When I see a thread about something like “which mouthpiece does _____ use?” I generally just skip past it, because I’m not interested and think it’s sort of a waste of time, but I don’t really have a problem with those who do like that sort of discussion.
Brad |
Brad,
It was meant mostly as a joke, certainly not an attempt to censor or question your decision to post. My sense of humor is sometimes a little off center from the general populace.
I saw the posts also.
...And they annoyed me too.
...And I would never purchase anything from someone who posted like this.
My mental picture of the poster is some middle schooler selling the instrument his parents paid for. In my mind I don't imagine this person taking great care of their possessions. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Five post new “members” |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Not everyone on TH agrees with the above, but I’ll bet more than 50% do. |
Well I do, Brad. Here's a +1.
And, unfortunately, the suggestions about changing the marketplace rules fall flat. Totally ineffective. |
The only thing worse are the people who post complaints about it knowing doing so doesn’t help.
(This post is mostly a joke, but does point out the irony.) |
Well....ok....sort of. What prompted me to post this was a recent group of especially inane posts by guys wanting to sell here. And I did post it here in “The Lounge”, not in another inappropriate forum.
Does pointing out (again, I know) this five post thing help? Doubtful. Waste of time and cyber space? Probably. But there are lots of repetitive discussions on the forum that are probably equally wasteful. This place is, after all , just a (mostly) harmless source of entertainment for people with like interests.
We’re all free to read or not read anything we see here. When I see a thread about something like “which mouthpiece does _____ use?” I generally just skip past it, because I’m not interested and think it’s sort of a waste of time, but I don’t really have a problem with those who do like that sort of discussion.
Brad |
Brad,
It was meant mostly as a joke, certainly not an attempt to censor or question your decision to post. My sense of humor is sometimes a little off center from the general populace.
I saw the posts also.
...And they annoyed me too.
...And I would never purchase anything from someone who posted like this.
My mental picture of the poster is some middle schooler selling the instrument his parents paid for. In my mind I don't imagine this person taking great care of their possessions. |
I think you’re probably correct, and nothing wrong with a little good natured humor. No harm no foul here, we’re good, Capt. K.😉😉
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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This place would be so much better if we could just totally eliminate the marketplace. It constantly mucks up the forum discussions.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | This place would be so much better if we could just totally eliminate the marketplace. It constantly mucks up the forum discussions. |
All due respect, but would it not help the situation if the five post rules were simply changed? What would be the downside to increasing the minimum number of posts? I fully realize that doing that is no guarantee that everyone will behave in the marketplace with good ethics, but what am I missing here? Who would have to give final approval to make a change like that?
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | PH wrote: | | This place would be so much better if we could just totally eliminate the marketplace. It constantly mucks up the forum discussions. |
All due respect, but would it not help the situation if the five post rules were simply changed? What would be the downside to increasing the minimum number of posts? I fully realize that doing that is no guarantee that everyone will behave in the marketplace with good ethics, but what am I missing here? Who would have to give final approval to make a change like that?
Brad |
Possibly, but only to a degree. Elimination of the marketplace would be the best upgrade we could possibly do to the site.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I’m not sure why eliminating the marketplace would be preferable, but I’m probably not in a position to really know.
I know I have used and still do use the marketplace, I’ve never had a problem, but it seems to me that simply increasing the post minimum would help lessen the chances of problems.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| There is a member that has been accused of scamming people in the marketplace who has over 4000 posts. I think that some method of reviewing the initial five posts before granting marketplace access would be more effective, but I do realize that we cannot expect the Todd or the moderators to take this on. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | There is a member that has been accused of scamming people in the marketplace who has over 4000 posts. I think that some method of reviewing the initial five posts before granting marketplace access would be more effective, but I do realize that we cannot expect the Todd or the moderators to take this on. |
Good points.
I’m going to refrain from commenting on the “five post situation” again. I realize that nothing is likely to change, and I probably should just adopt an “if I don’t like it, don’t use it” policy.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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mafields627
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3776
Location: AL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:45 am Post subject: |
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TH is kind of like Grandpa. It's old, creaky, prone to the occasional off-color story about the good old days, and breaks wind at the table; but, when you need to know something that nobody else in the family knows you go to him. You accept Grandpa for who he is, knowing he'll never change, and hope he's around for a long, long time.
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--Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | Ok, I’m not sure why eliminating the marketplace would be preferable, but I’m probably not in a position to really know.
I know I have used and still do use the marketplace, I’ve never had a problem, but it seems to me that simply increasing the post minimum would help lessen the chances of problems.
Brad |
1) As a moderator, I deeply resent the number of contacts the moderators team receives about alleged impropriety in the marketplace WHEN IT CLEARLY STATES IN SEVERAL PLACES ON THE SITE THAT MODERATORS HAVE NO CONTROL OF THE MARKETPLACE AND ARE ONLY INVOLVED WITH THE FORUMS. Only the system admin can deal with marketplace issues. This is such a hassle that I have seriously considered resigning my position and leaving the site....just because of the marketplace.
2) A revolting amount of space and energy in the forums is wasted with kerfuffles about marketplace transactions, alleged bad sellers and scammers, discussions about peripheral issues like this thread re the 5 post rule, etc. I thought we were here to discuss trumpet playing and music making. Gear is peripheral at best to those those things.
3) Anyone who buys an instrument without meeting the seller (especially a PRIVATE seller) and playing the instrument might just as well put a kick me sign on their back. If you buy or sell instruments on the internet you are setting yourself up to be a mark. Caveat emptor. If you really want/need a new horn, mouthpiece, etc. take the time and spend the money to go to a place where you can meet the seller, see and play the gear. Otherwise, put down your money. Take your chances. And deal with the consequences.
If you need to sell an instrument, do it by consigning it to a trusted intermediary like Trent Austin. I've done that to very good effect and both the buyer and seller can have confidence.
Let's start a movement to get rid of the marketplace for the good of the site and return our attention to trumpet PLAYING and music making. There are other places on the internet where the gamblers amongst you can go fritter away your time and money.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | Only the system admin can deal with marketplace issues. This is such a hassle that I have seriously considered resigning my position and leaving the site....just because of the marketplace. |
Ignoring the marketplace conundrum for a moment, thank you for your work as a moderator. I apologize for the times I have unwittingly or stupidly caused more work for you. |
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Speed
Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 295
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: |
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How about a separate forum where Marketplace issues are addressed?
I can see some possibilities for abuse, but at least it would keep Marketplace problems out of the regular forums.
I've bought an instrument through the marketplace, but I did some research first. I checked the seller's posts. I saw quickly that he didn't feel the need to post in every thread that came along, but when he did post, it added to the conversation.
I pm'd him about the instrument, and he told me it had been worked on for a specific thing by a particular tech. I contacted the tech and confirmed that he had in fact done that work on that instrument. At that point, I felt pretty comfortable going through with the purchase, and it went smoothly.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | Ok, I’m not sure why eliminating the marketplace would be preferable, but I’m probably not in a position to really know.
I know I have used and still do use the marketplace, I’ve never had a problem, but it seems to me that simply increasing the post minimum would help lessen the chances of problems.
Brad |
1) As a moderator, I deeply resent the number of contacts the moderators team receives about alleged impropriety in the marketplace WHEN IT CLEARLY STATES IN SEVERAL PLACES ON THE SITE THAT MODERATORS HAVE NO CONTROL OF THE MARKETPLACE AND ARE ONLY INVOLVED WITH THE FORUMS. Only the system admin can deal with marketplace issues. This is such a hassle that I have seriously considered resigning my position and leaving the site....just because of the marketplace.
2) A revolting amount of space and energy in the forums is wasted with kerfuffles about marketplace transactions, alleged bad sellers and scammers, discussions about peripheral issues like this thread re the 5 post rule, etc. I thought we were here to discuss trumpet playing and music making. Gear is peripheral at best to those those things.
3) Anyone who buys an instrument without meeting the seller (especially a PRIVATE seller) and playing the instrument might just as well put a kick me sign on their back. If you buy or sell instruments on the internet you are setting yourself up to be a mark. Caveat emptor. If you really want/need a new horn, mouthpiece, etc. take the time and spend the money to go to a place where you can meet the seller, see and play the gear. Otherwise, put down your money. Take your chances. And deal with the consequences.
If you need to sell an instrument, do it by consigning it to a trusted intermediary like Trent Austin. I've done that to very good effect and both the buyer and seller can have confidence.
Let's start a movement to get rid of the marketplace for the good of the site and return our attention to trumpet PLAYING and music making. There are other places on the internet where the gamblers amongst you can go fritter away your time and money. |
Ok. Got it.
Seems to me that if there are specific forums for discussing things like gear, or for posting non-trumpet playing comments in The Lounge it would be acceptable to do so, but ok, sorry for creating such discord here. Won’t happen again.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9032
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: |
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"Anyone who buys an instrument without meeting the seller (especially a PRIVATE seller) and playing the instrument might just as well put a kick me sign on their back."
Just from another perspective, I have bought and sold quite a few professional level instruments from internet sellers/buyers and have no problems with any of them with the exception of one sax that the buyer said had some pad-hole leaks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Didymus
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017
Posts: 306
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: Marketplace. |
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This board has been around for a while, and many of the ways it is set up, as well as how it is managed, are better suited to an earlier era when there was not as much activity (and outright skullduggery) on the Internet. As far as the Marketplace is concerned, perhaps they can go from suggesting to requiring all transactions to use escrow.com and/or other services of that kind.
Comments & Suggestions seems to be a better place than The Lounge to have this conversation.
Maybe a future upgrade/overhaul can involve the TH setting up its own consignment eBay store, a "vetted partner" system, an automated warning ("This entry was submitted by a TH participant who has made less than 10 posts"; "This entry was submitted by a TH user who has not been active since submitting this advertisement."), as well as a Marketplace-specific sub-forum for feedback.
Or, quite simply, do away with the Marketplace. Prof. Harbison makes a great point. The raison d'être of the TH is not buying and selling trumpets. The Marketplace was supposed to be a cool feature for the community, not an open resource for anybody with access to the Internet who wants to flip a trumpet for $$s. Going back to my first point, over the years we have seen the rise of other Internet-based resources that are better suited for such transactions.
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