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rburrows
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Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:17 pm Post subject: Lead mouthpiece change thoughts |
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I currently play a Bach 5C with a Bach 72 lightweight and am looking to up my range a note or two. I know there is no magic bullet but wondered what options are for a cup change. I play in disco/funk/rock/wedding bands so not looking to be a true lead player. I just want a bit more endurance etc.
So I'm assuming to keep the 5 rim and get a shallower cup but maybe I should take this time to get a different brand or change other attributes like back bore, etc?
Thanks for you thoughts. |
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| You would be a natural for a Curry 5*. (Purviance style cup). |
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Brad361
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Not what you probably want to hear, but I would be surprised if a mouthpiece change added a whole step or more to your top end.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
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kehaulani
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Kennedy wrote: | | You would be a natural for a Curry 5*. (Purviance style cup). |
You could look into a Purviance 4*K4 or a 4*3.
http://www.bobreeves.com/products/purviance/index.htm
But I also wonder if a subtle change in mouthpiece is going to increase your range vs. getting a difference in how you are playing.
I had a change of approach and went, in a short time, from a workable A above the staff and attainable High C or D to a workable E above High C and an attainable Double High C. Change of approach and mechanics, not equipment.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rburrows
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Joined: 26 Oct 2015
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ed, Brad and Kehaulani. I'll check out curry and bob reeves. I wasn't expecting the mouthpiece to do all the work of expanding range. I for sure have to work harder. I took a couple decades off but in the last 3 years or so have grown from nothing to c# above staff during gigs. Now e's with the occasional f# during gigs...a squeaked g here and there while practicing. Mostly want to not be quite as fatigued during 3 one hour long set gigs.
Certainly a demanding beast of an instrument! |
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | Not what you probably want to hear, but I would be surprised if a mouthpiece change added a whole step or more to your top end.
Brad |
+1. Unless your current mouthpiece is a significant mismatch for your physiology a mouthpiece change is very unlikely to result in any real increase in your range.
It could be possible for a mouthpiece change to make the high register easier, to tweak things a little. However, the difference is most likely to just be technical and unlikely to be genuinely significant unless your current mouthpiece is a significant mismatch for your physiology.
The most important solution to producing increased range is technique/embouchure design. High range is almost entirely a technique thing, not a strength thing (although you do need strength, just not as much as you might think you need). High range is not typically a mouthpiece or horn thing. Changing the mouthpiece or the horn rarely results in any increase in range or any significant ease in producing your existing range.
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rburrows
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Hermokiwi,
I suppose that what you and Brad advise is what I need to hear.
Ok back to the shed! |
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gwood66
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
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Location: South of Chicago
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I am just a scrub comeback player but I would suggest checking out GR mouthpieces. I think the 65MS might be close to what you are searching for. Your best bet would be to find a GR rep and have them help you out.
GR mouthpieces cost a couples of buck extra, but I believe they are worth every penny. I recently (2 months ago) switched to a GR 66MS from a 3C and could feel a difference immediately. As with all mouthpiece suggestions, your mileage may vary. |
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JVL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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hello
maybe schilke 14A4a, or in smaller ID yam Shew lead ?
best |
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rmch
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Brad361
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| gwood66 wrote: | I am just a scrub comeback player but I would suggest checking out GR mouthpieces. I think the 65MS might be close to what you are searching for. Your best bet would be to find a GR rep and have them help you out.
GR mouthpieces cost a couples of buck extra, but I believe they are worth every penny. I recently (2 months ago) switched to a GR 66MS from a 3C and could feel a difference immediately. As with all mouthpiece suggestions, your mileage may vary. |
I believe your last sentence is correct, which is why I don’t make specific mouthpiece recommendations. I happen to use a GR Carl Fischer Signature model, but I don’t really think that means anything to anyone else, there are WAY too many variables.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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RussellDDixon
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: |
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As always, YOU are an individual. NO ONE on here can prescribe what YOU should do.
I have tried tons of equipment over the years and have found the best set up for me through experimentation. I had four Band Directors who all played the trumpet in high school. None of them could play very well and none of them could exceed a high C on the trumpet. NONE OF THEM knew how to play correctly from a physical stand point and they all advocated playing a Bach mouthpiece and never trying anything else. I did not listen to them. I utilized common sense.
How do you know if this works better than that if you do not try different mouthpieces and trumpets ? You can try out pieces at the local Music Store and I always made a point to stop at different places when I traveled.
I do believe that finding the optimum equipment for YOU does make a huge difference. If it didn't, the Pros would all be playing the same mouthpieces and trumpets; however, they do not.
Vizzutti himself explains on his blog on his website that he tried the typical Bach 1C, 3C ad nauseum and they did not work for him. Schilke sent him a 14A4E (by mistake) and he began using it within Orchestra & Big Band. In other words, he found the mouthpiece that worked for him and used it. Many would consider his present mouthpiece to be a Lead mouthpiece; however, he plays everything on it.
Mouthpieces are like shoes, you have to try things out and determine what works for YOU.
Bobby Shew has stated that in the end you are your own best Teacher.
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digs
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: |
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If I was playing the type of music you describe, I would not be using a C cup. While I agree a shallow mouthpiece won’t likely add range, for many players it will make it easier to get the sound you may want for that type of music. Which may lead to improved endurance.
Practice is a given; not sure why everyone is so quick to say practice more when someone asks an honest question about gear.
Yamaha pieces are cheap, and may be a good way to experiment. 11B4 or 11A4 are kind of like a shallow 7C. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
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The obvious choice would be to try shallower Bach 5 pieces. I know a guy that gets a decent boost going from a Bach C cup to a Bach D cup.
Beyond that, you might consider choosing a method or better yet, a teacher and see if that choice benefits from an equipment change.
FWIW in the past I've had some incremental assist up top by using slightly shallower or smaller gear, but ultimately I never found anything that gave me durable results, and all compromised my general playing in a way I didn't want to accept.
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Brad361
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| digs wrote: | ......
Practice is a given; not sure why everyone is so quick to say practice more when someone asks an honest question about gear.
....... |
I don’t think it necessarily is (a given), though it should be. And I think the reason why some of us point that out in response to an equipment question is because oftentimes you can tell from the language in equipment question threads that the poster may in fact not realize how important practice is, versus equipment.
Brad
_________________
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kozzicomma
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | The most important solution to producing increased range is technique/embouchure design. High range is almost entirely a technique thing, not a strength thing (although you do need strength, just not as much as you might think you need). |
I feel like it is very difficult for beginners, some comeback players, amateurs, etc. who do not get regular, proper instruction from a teacher with experience to understand this. Nothing against HERMOKIWI at all, your statement is dead on accurate. I just feel like this is a hard concept to grasp for a lot of inexperienced players. You definitely do NOT need the amount of strength that the typical amateur believes you need. And if you're one of those struggling with this, you most likely believe that it takes a LOT more air than it really takes as well. It's all about proper technique, coordination of air and compression with aperture focus, and a good deal of finesse.
Unfortunately, I feel like the right advice can only make you understand what you're supposed to be doing, but maybe NOT how it's supposed to feel. My best attempt at describing how it feels is it almost feels like whistling. I used to power through to the high notes. I could play fairly high, i thought, even an occassional double C, but my range topped out at G-ish most of the time. And a lot of times i didn't feel like there was any room to grow. By taking a more technique/finesse approach, I feel like there's WAY more room to grow and that it's not nearly as physically demanding as I used to believe it was. I just wanted to throw that out there, because if you're playing in a rock band, you're probably powering through most of your high notes and ending sets pretty damn busted.
Edit: this is all to say that you should play on a mouthpiece that is comfortable for you to play on and helps you get the kind of sound you're looking for, and not to choose a mp to help your range necessarily.
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nieuwguyski
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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As an easy experiment, I'd suggest trying a Bach 3C. It's shallower, and while it has a different rim contour it's debatable as to whether it's really any wider.
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Seymor B Fudd
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| nieuwguyski wrote: | | As an easy experiment, I'd suggest trying a Bach 3C. It's shallower, and while it has a different rim contour it's debatable as to whether it's really any wider. |
Like many of us I have had my fair share of Safaris searching for that splendid mouthpiece supposed to solve the issue of upper range.
One discovery for me was that shallow mouthpieces did not resonate with me on several grounds; one being that I bottomed - another that I did not get room enough to allow vibrations (or so I thought).
Smaller diameters/bigger diameters - I tried the Stork VM 6 which is a very good mpc, in the the past I found the Schilke 14A4 (a) impossible, but eventually I solved (well, for now...) the issue by re-discovering an old Schilke 14B (17,2mm) which is sort of V cupish. Helped me a lot. The rest is practice and technique!!! Nowadays I believe that a good upper range is conditional upon skill/technique.
The diameter, the rim should be very personal - so my general hint is - try a V-cupish mpc! The Stork line provides such. Among others.
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:01 am Post subject: |
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I play a Curry custom mouthpiece (C60) which was developed after scanning many examples of the 4*K4. It had the same .660" ID as his 5 series. The C60 rim is much more comfortable for me. |
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rburrows
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting responses...and interesting assumptions of my abilities and where I am in my career.
I tried to be clear that i was not looking for a magic mouthpiece to fix all my issues. I do realize that intelligent practice is what has and will contnue to make me a good player.
I’m pretty sure that lead players usually don’t tend to play the same gear that an orchestral player does. That said I’m sure Maynard could probably out play me on a Bach 1 1/2 C hands down.
I just wondered if anyone previously playing a 5c had gained any help by playing a shallower 5. And if so which...5sw or 5d?
So thanks all for you thoughts. I guess the take away is that I’m on my own to command my fate. |
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