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THE SPIDER AND NODES


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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your list of Caruso stuff yet to be covered ( Getting Started) you mention something called "nodes" - what is that? Also, is there a Caruso exercise called a "Spider"?

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[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2004-03-08 00:19 ]
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry,

The SPIDER.

Start on tuning C, follow the Four Rules and play ¼ notes:

C - B - C - C# - C - Bb - C - D - C - A - C - Eb - C - Ab - C - E - C - G - C - F - C - etc. to C2 - C1 - C2 - C3 - C2

Do this for a week and then start on E2

Then start on G3

And finally start on C3.

The exercise is constantly opening up but always coming back to the familiar starting note.


The NODES.

This was kind of different. Start on C2 (tuning note). Without any foot tapping let the pitch of the note keep going flatter and flatter by just letting the lips relax until the note "drops" to the G. You're not actually trying to have the lips become a certain predertermined tension. The idea is for the G to kind of play itself. On the same breath and playing this all as one long slur, let the pitch just go flat on the G again until it bumps down to the C.

Do this for a few days and then start on the E fourth space and do the same procedure down to the low C.

Then start on the G on top of the staff and finally start on the high C
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again, Charles. The node exercise sounds sort like a chop relaxer - kind of like the low f# played softly. BTW I think I also played a top line f# softly but I am not sure about that.

Jerry
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BrassClass
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charley,
I can think of several advantages in playing The Spider and The Nodes. What were Caruso's and your opinion of the advantages in playing them?

Thanks.
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B6L
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,and when and where do we incorporate them into to the regular Caruso routine?
Nate
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Spider is an increasingly wider interval drill that keeps coming back to the same "set point," although I don't remember Carmine ever using that particular term. But, for example, you set on the first exercise at C2 and then relate intervals, up to an octave, with that setting. And then the same thing for the E2, G3 and C3. This drill is not for the beginner. I think it is important to get something in the bank to relate to first.

I don't know the purpose of the Nodes drill.

BTW, when a student has reached the level of the Spider and the Nodes, the assignment would be to practice them several times. Both of these exercises came well after my first year, so perhaps Carmine viewed them as more advanced or fine tuning of the embouchure.

An interesting alternate way to do the spider is to leave out the first note after using it as a starting point. Hearing the new intervals becomes a different kind of challenge!
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Liad Bar-EL
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles,

It seems to me that the nodes drill would help in two ways.

1) It will 'break' your "hold" on a note which you have learned for all your years of playing in order to...

2) ... get your chops trained to center the notes being played and your ears to determine the difference.

What I have said is probably not true because as you have said "let the pitch just go flat on the G again until it bumps down to the C." In other words this "bumping down" is not going from a flattened note to a sharpened note but rather to a 'clicked' centered note.

Is this what you're saying?

Liad
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liad,

"In other words this "bumping down" is not going from a flattened note to a sharpened note but rather to a 'clicked' centered note."

I don't know if the note that the lips go to is necessarily "a 'clicked' centered note." The note does seem to be very clear toned when you bump down to it. And very relaxed in its execution.

Maybe Laurie or Pat or Sam would have words of wisdom to offer here.

When I studied with Carmine, and for all the succeeding years that I have practiced his calisthenics, I have tried to practice as he instructed me to do. I never questioned the validity or merit of what he instructed, but have spent my life trying to understand it. I have learned a lot from Pat, Laurie and Sam in this regard. Sometimes trying to understand something can get in the way of implementing it, and I'm sure that took place with me for many years. I was determined to shoot myself in the foot. BUT, I improved inspite of myself, albeit, probably slower than if I hadn't ried to be so analytical. I know now that that was Carmine's reasoning for NOT being analytical with students. It'll screw 'em up! Read, "Zen IN The Art Of Archery" for more on this concept.

But it is nice, and for some our cross to bear, to know analytically what you're doing, even though knowing will not improve your performance AND always carries the potential of undermining it!
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Liad Bar-EL
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being analytical must be the sign of the times.

Even the military is testing a horn with a digital audio device inserted into a bugle to play taps.

All the horns, mpc's and techniques are also becoming so much more technical especially now that internet/e-mail is happening ... everybody wanting everything long distance and by remote control down to the nanosecond.

The trick is to get everything down to 10 words or less.

I'm still on Carmine's book and my chops are improving. Now, shall I spend the next ten words or ten pages describing what this means? I'm seven hours ahead of you there; so, I am getting ready to call it a day.

Be well,

Liad
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trumpetdiva1
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though I have never went through the “spider” in my trumpet lessons with Laurie Frink, she does make reference to the “spider” in her handout on Caruso from one of the previous ITG Conferences. If I remember correctly (and Laurie please correct me if I am wrong), the “spider” helps if there are breaks between the registers or range of your instrument.
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PH
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About my work with Carmine on "The Spider"-

We started this first on G in the staff. We moved it up chromatically through all of the keys (one per week). When I got to starting the spider on G on top of the staff he left it there for me.

We went through the spider all slurred and then several weeks later added an all single tongue version (starting on G in the staff again). Both slurred & tongued were assigned one key per lesson and were moved up chormatically until they stopped when I was playing them both centered around G on top of the staff.

[ This Message was edited by: PH on 2002-11-05 20:40 ]
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Laurie Frink
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is also quite interesting to play the spider in reverse.
Laurie
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet the developed scales would be interesting in different keys...
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JoeCool
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, this is an excellent idea about doing the developed scale in all keys! Heck, you could do major, minor, all the jazz keys....
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I retitled this thread by Jerry to make it easier to search.
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leadlad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At what point in your lessons did Carmine introduce these two excercises? Where would be a good point in the book MCFB to begin doing them?
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PH
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CC gave me the materials in a slightly different order than Charly's schedule from Getting Started. However, basically he added the spiders and the stuff from the clarinet book at the point where my interval practice went on "The Schedule". At that point he gave me the spider starting on second line G. He had me move it up a semitone each week.

He never assigned the nodes exercise to me.

[ This Message was edited by: PH on 2004-03-08 09:42 ]
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat wrote, At that point he gave me the spider starting on second line G

He started me on the second line G also.

So how did it progress for you, Pat? The second week you would go to G# as the "set point" note?
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PH
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. I didn't actually move it up every lesson. Some times I needed to stay on one set note for several weeks to get the timing and balance worked out.

He had me take these up to the set point being G on top of the staff.

[ This Message was edited by: ph on 2004-03-08 10:23 ]
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does it mean to have the timing and balance worked out? How could you tell?
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