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ZonalThrone Regular Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Posts: 13 Location: Earth
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 12:44 pm Post subject: Best Conn horns? |
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I’ve been looking for an extra trumpet for marching band and IT really seems like Conns would be ideal. The question is which ones? I’ve been looking at 22b 20b 18b 23b there’s too many models 😂
Which ones should I be looking out for for a nice open and loud sound under ≈400? |
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steevo Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 454
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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1. Find an old Conn.
2. Play it. If you like it then...
3. Have it checked by a good tech for problems. If that checks out then...
4. Buy it and enjoy.
Conn instruments were the most popular manufacturer for years, and have made some really great trumpets. Most people prefer the instruments made in Elkhart, which makes them a minimum of about 50 years old. I have some wonderful old Conns that are solid and have a tight piston fit, but being as old as they are, most 50+ year old trumpets are not in pristine condition.
As far as model, I would advise to disregard any specific model, and look for something that is in good condition. All models play pretty darn well. Play one, and if you like it, get it evaluated to ascertain its condition.
If you are going to purchase over the internet without playing it, expect the worse and pay accordingly. (I don't know the going rate, but the last valve job I had cost over $600.) |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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For marching band, pretty much any decent trumpet would be fine - and that includes Conn, Yamaha, Getzen, Bach, King, Blessing, etc.
It's important to at least do a brief test-play just to make sure it isn't broken. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9367 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I’d look for a 1950s or 1960s 22B Victor. A decent one of those should fall within your budget. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Fubeca Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2019 Posts: 20
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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_________________ Bb: 1983 Bach 37 ML
C: Shires Q13
Picc: 2006 Kanstul 920
Flugel: 1970 Getzen Eterna
Cornet: 1957 York 75 "Brilliant"
Last edited by Fubeca on Sun May 21, 2023 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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jeirvine Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2022 Posts: 337 Location: Baltimore, MD USA
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Where are you located? I have a '55 22B that would fit your budget. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37 |
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ZonalThrone Regular Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Posts: 13 Location: Earth
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions! So the coprion one’s are good? They seem to be a little cheaper usually so it may be a good option |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 9:19 am Post subject: |
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One of my favorite Conns is the 52B, would be great for outdoors but I have never seen one for ca. 400. At 600ish, yes. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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ZonalThrone Regular Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Posts: 13 Location: Earth
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 10:06 am Post subject: |
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How much would it be to fix the bell bend you think? |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9367 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I’ve never been impressed with Director trumpets. The Director cornets are better at being trumpets than the Director trumpets are…lol _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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ZonalThrone wrote: |
How much would it be to fix the bell bend you think? |
I really don't know, I wouldn't think much since it's not very bad. Probably depends on whether you have a local store that does it their self or sends it out, bc it's the shipping that kills you when they send it out. And those Coprion(Copper) usually aren't that cheap, usually twice what those 2 are going for, and yes, they produce a terrific sound. Those are the Conn 14B Directors with Coprion bell, great intermediate horns by today's standards even without the Coprion, and solidly built with great valves.
From Conn Loyalist website:
"Director: The student model, cheapest Conn model. In 2000 I was in a music shop and tried out a brand new UMI-Conn 22B Director model (no relation to the venerable 22B New York Symphony/Victor). I don't want to offend anyone, but it couldn't hold a candle to the old 1960's 15B Director."
If you have time, you can try to get a late 30's up to about 1942 22B, I got my 1940 22B New Yprk Symphony for $191 total on ebay with no damage. not one dent, and the original main slide stop rod and nuts(rare for it to still be there complete) and in very good condition overall, but I had to wait patiently and snipe the auction. Was well worth it though. The pre WW2 22B's are made of thicker brass on the bell than after the war, probably due to materials cost as they did away with the stop rod post war also. If you have time and are patient enough, you'd be surprised what you can get for under $200, much less $400. I got my 1932 silver military spec(cross between a 2B and a 22B made for US Army) for $237 total and it has not one dent(but stop rod is missing and no case, just a gig bag, but 3 vintage mouthpieces). So it's amazing what you can get. Always seem to be a lot of Conns on eBay too, I missed a silver 1930's 2B I wanted that was beautiful and complete with all stop rods, case, mutes, cornet adapter, lyre, 2 mouthpieces. It was about $350. _________________ Olds Super('54)
Conn Military Spec('32)
Conn 22B('24;'41)
Holton Military 48('51)
Holton 45 ('47)
Pan American 66B('31)
King Liberty('25,'29,'34 Silvertone)
Martin Imperial('64)
Tonk Sterling('19)
H.B.Jay Columbia('19) |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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steevo wrote: |
If you are going to purchase over the internet without playing it, expect the worse and pay accordingly. (I don't know the going rate, but the last valve job I had cost over $600.) |
The key to buying over the internet is 1. Knowing your subject 2. ask a lot of questions and pictures if there aren't enough 3. download the pics so you can blown them up for detail. 4. prefer those with pics of trumpet dismantled or at least with valves out 5. know that you'll generally pay more good horns if the seller is knowledgeable of trumpets, less if they're not, although, many that are not have their price set high, but will generally take a much lower offer if they have that set.
I use the same principle I use on all used stuff, look for the "don't wanter", someone who has something that would rather unload it now at a low price than hang onto it for a higher price. I love that Reverb shows WHEN the item was originally listed, lets me know how long it's been for sale and how likely the seller is to take a lower offer. Many items, I put in my watch list and wait to see if the seller sends me an offer, which happens a lot if you're patient.
Anyway, my 2 cents on buying online and I've bought cars, motorcycles and driven them across country (Ohio to Vegas, Ft. Walton Beach, FL to Vegas) without a hitch. _________________ Olds Super('54)
Conn Military Spec('32)
Conn 22B('24;'41)
Holton Military 48('51)
Holton 45 ('47)
Pan American 66B('31)
King Liberty('25,'29,'34 Silvertone)
Martin Imperial('64)
Tonk Sterling('19)
H.B.Jay Columbia('19) |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | I’ve never been impressed with Director trumpets. The Director cornets are better at being trumpets than the Director trumpets are…lol |
Have you played a 50's 14B Director? What is your issue with them? Mine plays quite well, My 1940 22B being only slightly better valve action and tone. But I'm not an expert player, so am curious. I have a 1950's Director cornet also. _________________ Olds Super('54)
Conn Military Spec('32)
Conn 22B('24;'41)
Holton Military 48('51)
Holton 45 ('47)
Pan American 66B('31)
King Liberty('25,'29,'34 Silvertone)
Martin Imperial('64)
Tonk Sterling('19)
H.B.Jay Columbia('19) |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9367 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 8:16 am Post subject: |
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dwgib wrote: | Dale Proctor wrote: | I’ve never been impressed with Director trumpets. The Director cornets are better at being trumpets than the Director trumpets are…lol |
Have you played a 50's 14B Director? What is your issue with them? Mine plays quite well, My 1940 22B being only slightly better valve action and tone. But I'm not an expert player, so am curious. I have a 1950's Director cornet also. |
No, but I’ve owned a couple 1960s 15B Directors and they were just average trumpets, not bad at all, but not outstanding either. I’ve had three 22B trumpets - a 1925 NYS, a 1929 NYS, and a 1969 Victor, and those were much better instruments than the Directors. Maybe the 1950s Directors were better than the 1960s ones?
Of the three 22B trumpets I’ve owned, the 1925 was the best player, but the worst looking. The 1929 was still really good, though, and was a beautiful instrument. To me, the early ones with the top-sprung valves play a lot like a small bore Bach Stradivarius. The 1969 Victor was a different experience, though - it felt more open and produced a brighter sound than the older 22Bs did. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I know the OP asked about Conn trumpets. But if you are marching, my favorite would be a King 601. They are very sturdy and with a .462 bore they take a lot of air. On the field or on the street, being able to pump more air through and get more volume, that is quite an advantage. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1833 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: |
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For a marching horn under $400 - and a Conn ... OK the student model Conn 22B .462 bore. Not the Classic Conn Victor 22B .438 bore.
The student 22B shares parts and valve block with the King 601. A used one will probably have good valves and slides and good compression. Just be sure the leadpipe is not dented. Buy a little video camera on ebay small enough to fit in the valve casings and learn how to do a valve alignment. Buy some Curry CCaps #1 to add some weight to the trumpet, a mouthpiece weight and blast away. |
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ZonalThrone Regular Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Posts: 13 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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So a king 601 would be a good option then? They look like they might be a little easier to find in that price range. Just something that I can pump a lot of air through is ideal |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Cooper wrote: | For a marching horn under $400 - and a Conn ... OK the student model Conn 22B .462 bore. Not the Classic Conn Victor 22B .438 bore.
The student 22B shares parts and valve block with the King 601. A used one will probably have good valves and slides and good compression. Just be sure the leadpipe is not dented. Buy a little video camera on ebay small enough to fit in the valve casings and learn how to do a valve alignment. Buy some Curry CCaps #1 to add some weight to the trumpet, a mouthpiece weight and blast away. |
I've never had the newer Conn 22B student model(kills me they obviously tried to trick buyers using the older 22B NYS number) but I'd listen to the Conn expert, from the Conn Loyalist site:
"Director The student model, cheapest Conn model. In 2000 I was in a music shop and tried out a brand new UMI-Conn 22B Director model (no relation to the venerable 22B New York Symphony/Victor). I don't want to offend anyone, but it couldn't hold a candle to the old 1960's 15B Director." _________________ Olds Super('54)
Conn Military Spec('32)
Conn 22B('24;'41)
Holton Military 48('51)
Holton 45 ('47)
Pan American 66B('31)
King Liberty('25,'29,'34 Silvertone)
Martin Imperial('64)
Tonk Sterling('19)
H.B.Jay Columbia('19) |
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dwgib Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2023 Posts: 280
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2023 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: |
No, but I’ve owned a couple 1960s 15B Directors and they were just average trumpets, not bad at all, but not outstanding either. I’ve had three 22B trumpets - a 1925 NYS, a 1929 NYS, and a 1969 Victor, and those were much better instruments than the Directors. Maybe the 1950s Directors were better than the 1960s ones?
Of the three 22B trumpets I’ve owned, the 1925 was the best player, but the worst looking. The 1929 was still really good, though, and was a beautiful instrument. To me, the early ones with the top-sprung valves play a lot like a small bore Bach Stradivarius. The 1969 Victor was a different experience, though - it felt more open and produced a brighter sound than the older 22Bs did. |
I think the only difference between 14B & 15B is valve caps(larger bottom & top on 15) finger ring(14 doesn't have 3rd slide one) and support rods(diagonal vs straight)
I have a 1924 & 1940 small bore 22B's, a 1921 & 32 that don't quite fit into any category because they are just like 22B but ML bore 0.46" (probably rounding the 0.458", my caliper is only 2 decimals). My 1955 14B is small bore, same size as 1924 & 1940 22B, the '40 has the "clickless" under sprung valves. I like the sound of the 1940 best, right there with my Martin and my King Liberty, beautiful tone & playability on all three.
Anyway, I guess it's up to the user. I also would think a great marching band horn that could be had at a low price is the Holton Colliegate from the 50's up to '69. Seems like many instrument companies fell apart o quality in the 60's. That's why I stick to the earlier ones. Although, I did initially buy a LJ Hutchens because it was cheap and it's a very well built student horn, I was impressed, and USA built. _________________ Olds Super('54)
Conn Military Spec('32)
Conn 22B('24;'41)
Holton Military 48('51)
Holton 45 ('47)
Pan American 66B('31)
King Liberty('25,'29,'34 Silvertone)
Martin Imperial('64)
Tonk Sterling('19)
H.B.Jay Columbia('19) |
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