Projection

[jicetp]

Hello everyone,

Yesterday, the conductor told me he barely hears me, even though my collegues and musicians in front of me thought I played loud.

I guess this is a lack of projection.

How can I overcome this ?

Thanks

JiCe

[Seymor B Fudd]

[zaferis]

First thoughts...

Are you playing into the stand? the floor? the back of the clarinets infront of you?

Could be a tone thing? (Concept of tone and ability to produce a strong core in your tone) Your tone could be less focussed than those around you. And it could be an equipment thing. (Some horns don't project like others).

Sit up, look right at the conductor, point you bell at him/her and raise your eyebrows (like you're working harder)..

Lessons? Routine?
Long tones, Flow studies, Lyrical studies, Slur Studies.. etc.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Derek Reaban]

While a sound that projects is easy to hear from the front of the bell, cultivating the type of sound that projects from behind the bell requires a really good model. If the conductor has commented that he is having trouble hearing you, it could be that you have a lot of the "fundamental" in your sound and tension in your approach to sound production is damping the higher overtones that allow a sound to project. This post gives a good example (sorry the pictures aren't working anymore).

I would suggest finding a player in town that you've heard from the front of the bell that has a sound you know easily carries to the back of the hall. Have a lesson with them and get a feel for what that sound is like sitting beside them (i.e. behind the bell). I've found that these players sound surprisingly quiet from behind the bell! Most likely there is tension in a number of areas in your playing, and reduction of that tension will allow your sound to vibrate more freely and project.

The exercises in Special Studies for Trumpet by John Daniel are an excellent way to cultivate healthy sound production.

Good luck.
_________________
Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[JayKosta]

Lack of 'projection' might be caused by your 'sound concept' of how the notes should mesh with the overall ensemble sound.
If the notes are played in a manner so they completely blend with the overall sound, then those notes might seem to not project. And that is fine for harmony and background filler.
But for notes that the audience is expected to hear distinctly (solo, counter melody, special effect, etc.), it can be helpful to have those notes/phrases stand-out.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Derek Reaban]

Here's a simple test to try. Download a decibel app on your phone (I like Decibel X). Put your phone on your music stand with the stand 3 feet from the front of your bell, and play a second line G at a mf. This should be a quality sound with little tension in your approach to sound production and will give you a good baseline for your perceived decibels output in front of the bell (typically between 85 and 90 dB).

An increase in decibels from 85 dB to 95 dB (i.e. 10 dB) is perceived as twice as loud to an observer listening to you play.

Try a crescendo on the second line G. Are you able to increase the dB to above 100 dB? If not, you are probably introducing tension which is damping the higher overtones. Try the G above the staff at a mf. Then crescendo. Are you stuck under 100 dB?

Players that focus on the higher overtones in the sound (i.e. complex, harmonically rich sounds), are easily able to play up to 105 dB on the G above the staff and may get to 110 dB or slightly above. 105 dB is twice as loud as a player that is at 95 dB and will clearly be heard in the hall. Getting to 115 dB gives even more presence in the hall, but many players introduce significant tension when playing louder (i.e. more physical effort) without increasing the dB at all.

The key is refining your sound to assure the higher overtones are always present, and then just a small amount of physical effort is required to increase the dynamic (dB).

If you find that the Decibel app shows that you are topping out well under 100 dB, it would be worthwhile to check out the John Daniel book and get some lessons with a player that has the sound you are looking for.

Hope this helps.
_________________
Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[Richard III]

All good suggestions. There is one more possible reason. Bell flare and horn construction. I have a cornet that seems to really put out sound laterally. Sitting in a section I have had people say I'm too loud. Yet at the front of the room no such issue. In recordings it comes off lacking in overtones. Interesting eh?

So what are you playing?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Turkle]

[adagiotrumpet]

[jicetp]

[JGulyas]

Back when I was in college and playing in orchestras, my instructor had me think of my sound *starting* about 3 feet in front of the bell, and "spinning" it towards the back of the hall (think of a bullet leaving a gun and how it spins).

Equipment can have a factor in the projection, as well, as has already been mentioned. Mine, back then, was a Bach 25A/237.

The analogy worked for me, but if all else fails, stare at the conductor, do the eyebrow trick and you should be fine.

Best,

John

[Turkle]

Love the eyebrow trick. Wish I had heard of that when I was playing in orchestras still...
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[Derek Reaban]

Seeing the word "spinning" in the above post related to resonance and a sound that projects, I think this post gives another tangible way to think about spin in the sound that is a little more tangible.
_________________
Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[Vin DiBona]

Talk to GR!
You backbore might not match the horn and GR can fix that easily.
R. Tomasek

[kalijah]

[Richard III]

[Derek Reaban]

[dstdenis]

If it's a solo, then you'll have to play louder than you normally do for the given dynamic. (The conductor should also make the rest of the band play softer for good balance, but that's on him/her.)

Make sure that your sound is full across phrases. I sometimes hear people play some notes strong while others are muffled. Think horizontally, across phrases, not vertically from note to note, so the conductor hears complete phrases clearly. You can/should still do crescendos/decrescendos, but don't let your sound fade so much that it gets lost.

If you're an upstream player, it's easier to aim the bell over your stand so your sound projects out into the room. But if you're a downstream player, you'll need to move the stand and play off to the side so your sound won't be reflected backward so much.

You should play louder, as Kalijah mentioned, with a style that fits the music. For example, if it's supposed to sound relaxed, easy and lyrical, then make sure it does, even as you play strong enough so the conductor and audience can hear it. Good luck.
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Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[kalijah]

It is still volume and perception. I am not assuming that one is not playing with the best sound possible in the moment.

Playing near the resonance center does contribute to efficiency and more sound for a given air power input.

All players have the overtones in the sound. Assuming an acceptable sound. Players sound louder because they ARE louder.

Efficient players aren't necessarily louder than less efficient ones. They simply can get sound with less effort regardless of what that loudness is.

Some players sound louder because they ARE louder. Not because they "project" better.

The perception by the listener can be affected by several things which the player has no control over.

[Derek Reaban]

Darryl,