Flugelhorn intonation below low C

acritzer · Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: Flugelhorn intonation below low C

I don’t play flugelhorn very often and just have a beat up doublers horn.
That being said, is a flat...like very flat, lower register at all common? I mean, it’s so bad I can hardly play below middle C without cringing.

zaferis

shofarguy

Brassnose · Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:02 am Post subject:

It is much more fun to play a good instrument (as Martin Schmidt who built my rotary said to me) ... but I fully understand monetary, time, and other restrictions. IF you have the chance get a good flugel and practice regularly. It will help your trumpet playing as well but may take some time.

Trying to tinker with the horn may work ... or not.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

John Mohan · Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:07 am Post subject:

Find a good, used Flügelhorn of better quality. I play a Yamaha 631 and its intonation is great. Note that the Yamaha 731 will also have great intonation (the only difference between the 631 and the 731 is the material the bell is made out of, rose brass and yellow brass respectively).

Cheers,

John Mohan

JonathanM · Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:59 pm Post subject:

As mentioned above, the mouthpiece of a flugel can make a tremendous difference in intonation. Flugels, however, are notorious for intonation problems - even some well-made, relatively expensive ones.

Also, pm sent to OP.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

Turkle · Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:26 am Post subject:

I have found that dialing in the right mouthpiece makes a huge difference in the intonation of a flugel, particularly in that lower register you're talking about.

You just have to try a bunch and figure out something that works for you. I eventually had to go the custom route, mixing and matching rims, cups, and shanks until I found something that had the tone and intonation I was looking for.

Good luck!
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

bike&ed · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837

Turkle · Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:48 am Post subject:

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961

To make a blanket statement saying all flugels have bad intonation is like saying all politicians are honest. I have spent a lot of time with my flugelhorn design getting things correct and the players who own them will attest to the flawless intonation throughout the range. At the recent Miami ITG I played on most of the inexpensive flugelhorns trying to source proper valve sections to replace what I had been using from Kanstul to no avail. Yes they were cheap and yes, the quality was generally poor. Adam, B&S, Getzen, Van Laar, Yamaha and the soon to be available new Scodwell USA would easily satisfy the most demanding pro. You don't want to spend the money for one of those? The new Scodwell USA "Euro" model would fill the bill at a super low price. Built with a trumpet valve section (I.E. horizontal slides) with a bell made in the late 60's and early 70's by Reynolds and a Scodwell leadpipe, this was aimed at the very market buying inexpensive doubler flugelhorns looking for the proper sound and blow along with very good intonation. It is possible.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

cheiden · Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:47 am Post subject:

When I started in flugel I remember having to pull the tuning slide out quite a bit to feel in tune. This made the mid and upper register in tune but below the staff was really really flat. Working with my teacher I learned that flugel needs to be played lower in the slot. Not exactly lipping down but sort of. He advised me to return the tuning slide to a more typical position and to adjust my chops. After that it didn't take too long until the horn began playing in tune across the registers.

It's worth mentioning that you need to ensure that the mouthpiece is reasonable and that it matches the shank of the horn or all bets are off.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

Riojazz · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:33 am Post subject:

Charles J Heiden above mentioned an important fact that bears reinforcing: the shank. You have to know which type of lead pipe your flugelhorn uses, then get a mouthpiece with the right shape to match. Is it a large or small Morse taper? A French taper (not a taper at all)?

For example, on my Kanstul 1525, I've experimented with different shanks and this makes an enormous difference in intonation. I use a French taper, not the stock lead pipe.
_________________
Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.