Brushed or satin finish project

trumpettyler · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:31 pm Post subject:

Does anyone have any experience in creating this type of finish as a do-it-yourself project? I really dig this look and have an old horn that would look gorgeous this way. Is this something I could pull off? If so, how?
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NTlead · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:08 pm Post subject:

Yes.

I started experimenting with it on my harmon mute, because it was just so boring, and there are essentially 2 cheap ways that I know of to do it.

Steel wool and sandpaper. Obviously these come in tons of different levels of coarseness but you're looking for something in the middle. Of my experiences I prefer steel wool. The good thing is, if you mess up horribly, you can just keep going away at the lacquer and make your trumpet raw/brushed, which is pretty cool.

I think getting a spray can of clear enamel to create another lacquer over what you brushed would be awesome, but I've never done it.

bgwbold · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:57 am Post subject:

Personally I would never use sandpaper on anything but I have used extra fine steel wool on aluminum mutes. Don't know what it would look like on brass. As cheap as some of my horns are, I haven't had the motivation to try it. My cheapest horn, and Olds Ambassador, plays really well and has turned a nice flat raw brass finish which looks fine to me.

Lawler has a beautiful brushed lacquer finish that is available on his horns. I have seen some others like the Phaeton which is also lacquered over the brushed finish. So, without a good coat of lacquer, I am not too sure how good it would look to me.

Keep us posted on your project and post a link to some pictures somewhere when you're done, if you can.

Mike

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:28 am Post subject:

The Yamaha matte finishes look fantastic. Instead of "scratch", they are "shot" (sand blasted I'd guess). Seems like blasting would be easier to get into nooks and crannies, but I like both looks.

Dave
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trumpettyler · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:33 am Post subject:

Would I remove all the lacquer down to raw brass, brush the raw brass, then relacquer, or is the brushing technique just in the lacquer and not the metal?
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_dcstep · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:07 am Post subject:

Under the lacquer.
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bgwbold · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:51 pm Post subject:

Would probably help to see one first. There are others, but the Phaeton and Lawler were two I have seen in person.

Mike

trumpettyler · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:56 pm Post subject:

Last question... Are there shops out there that will refinish a horn in this style?
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drunkiq · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:53 pm Post subject:

I would probably use Kanstual for brush work and Anderson offers bead blasting which they did to my horn - anyone that sends there horns to andersons should offere a bead (Satin) finish...
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_ConnMan · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:35 pm Post subject:

I would not suggest using sand paper or steel wool. Steel wool actually leaves tiny fragmentations of steel bristles embedded in the metal being worked upon. If you look at stainless steel sink disclaimers they'll tell you NOT to use Brilo pads (steel wool with a cleaning chemical on it) on them. That's because of the steel bristles that break off in the small pores of the stainless steel (SS). In a few short weeks rust will set in. People think the sink is rusting, but actually it's the steel bristles embedded in the SS.

How does Kanstul get the brushed looked? I'm told they do it with one of those 3M pot scrubber type pads. I've never messed around to try it, but it kind of makes sense. They are made of a synthetic material. Hence, no meatic bristles to leave behind in the work piece metal.

Best of Luck!
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bgwbold · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:38 pm Post subject:

Do you have a price on the Kanstul refinish? If I was going to do it, I would not want the sandblasting. Did they do a complete overhaul too, because the horn I have that needs it requires some plating and dent removal. Was going to take it to someone locally who would send it on to Andersons, but if Kanstul would do it all, that might be a better choice.

Mike

_ConnMan · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:49 pm Post subject:

I think Kanstul is kind of picky about the horns they re-work. They are not in the horn restoration business, but the horn manufacturing business. I was once told by a guy (D. Hoyt) who use to work there that Zig will re-work his own horns and a few others like a Besson Meha, but is rather choosey on what he will except.

Give Pair of Kings a call/email http://www.pickmusic.net . She'll tell you who to ask for out there in Annaheim.

Good Luck!
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Playing For Him,

Kanstul 1600 "WB" w/ Kanstul two-piece B3C & S72 BB
Connstellation 38B
Kanstul 925 Flugelhorn (copper bell) w/ Kanstul two-piece BFL3C w/ 119S BB
Jupiter 416BL Pocket Trpt.
www.measureofgrace.com

NTlead · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:40 pm Post subject:

I was always under the impression that they used a machine to brush them because I know they exist (brushing machines that is) but if they do, it does make you wonder how they could possibly get it into the smaller spaces.

Oh, and I definitely don't recommend doing it by hand to a trumpet you are very fond of. If it's really nice, send it to someone else.

drunkiq · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:51 pm Post subject:

I think Leigh Mckinney does overhaul/repair work to and offers a brush finish - shoot him a mail and find out...

http://www.firstclassbrassltd.co.uk/

my understanding is that this is a hand done process and you should aslk to see previous work beofre handing you trumpet over... the only scratch work I have seen that looks flawless is from Leigh and Kanstul....

also keep in mind that almost anywhere else you go, your horn will be sent to Andersons for plating...

-marc

bgwbold · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:51 am Post subject:

I am in Texas, so I am going to have to find another good source if Kanstul won't do it. The horn has been sort of satinized by a previous owner so I am going to have to stick with that kind of a finish, most likely. All I know is that it is a serious player and I hate very much buffing. I don't do this very often and every time have to start from scratch, so to speak. I have seen some sandblasted horns that have been done as well as it can be done, and the finish I want is more like what you see under the brushed lacquer jobs. Choice number one would be bright silver and maybe that can be done over what I have. Maybe my horn can be plated and will look smooth, so if that can be done, I would prefer it. I am just now starting to check on options.

Mike

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:51 pm Post subject:

I bought a real junk horn at a yardsale, sanded it all down to get the brushed finish. Looks great, but naturally it's gotten dull, needs a good polish. I'd say it needs a coat of lacquer to keep it shining.

Bonnie
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mark936 · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:59 pm Post subject:

I play an old Calicchio that has lost 85% of it's lacquer. When I had the pistons recoated at Kanstuls I asked Zig about brushing it out and making it look like a Wayne Bergeron model.

He said $200. And it sounded like a guy does it by hand. He said I could do it myself with the Scotchbright pads. Or sell it and buy a W.B.

I'm just leaving it alone for now.