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kehaulani
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 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Fair point about who to believe. That first trumpet teacher, the one I left, told my parents I sounded just like the soloist in Bernstein's Columbia Symphony Orchestra. Wrong (gong!). I guess it's a combination of your own intuition and the help of others.
Regarding money, do what I and others have done. Barter. Trade lessons for yard/house wok or other kinds of work for a teacher.
There's always the danger that you've convinced yourself that you can't play and are using that as an excuse to justify why things don't work. If you honestly just don't want to play, face it honestly. No fault. But if you still really want to play, don't let a negative mood or rationalizations hold you back.
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cheiden
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | When I visualize setting my lips to blow out a candle I'm picturing lips that are fairly open in the middle. I don't think this is a particularly good starting point. If you pin your lips in that position with the mouthpiece piece it could make ascending hard. If you bring the center of the lips together like your saying mmm and then set the mouthpiece it's still entirely possible to blow air through them with the sensation that you're blowing out a candle, with the air blowing the center open but in a way that they return to the mmm position when you stop blowing. There are others that advocate for setting up the lips like you're spitting out a grain of rice. Neither of these alternate set ups require establishing tension but they can provide a better foundation. |
I mentioned that recently I started working on Greg Spence's technique to fix what he called "too much tension" in my playing.
Greg often mentions in his videos that many trumpet teachers literally hate him for his educational methods. For instance his 'Uuuhh'-shape is considered unrealistic for playing trumpet. He says he doesn't care about those who say that. He asks everyone who joins his program to trust him.
He doesn't consider any specific details of the embouchure formation - I think he is very much in accord with he Claude Gordon's "no lip thinking" philosophy.
I guess Greg is responsible for what he is saying and his program looks very very well thought out.
I don't want to suggest that his approach is fit all but since I started to work on his exercises does it make sense to start adjusting my lips in a specific unnatural way if he never mentions it? |
Just a wild guess here. Greg's "too much tension" comment might relate to excess or unproductive frowning, and not that you should relax your top lip more. In fact a poor setup might be why you are resorting to excess tension peripherally.
I can appreciate why you're doing it but I think you might be putting too much stock in both Greg's "tension-less" and Claude's "ignore the lips" ideas. Like others have suggested, if you have a sensible setup then you can likely ignore the lips and play without excess tension. If your lips are applied to the mouthpiece, pinning them in a way that prevents them from working together then there's nothing you can do peripherally that will fix it. Just try to play a saxophone with the reed clamped into the mouthpiece the wrong way! Okay, I get the the mechanics are actually quite different but I think the analogy still has merit.
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TKSop
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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There are undeniably many different approaches and foci to playing trumpet.
In my opinion, from what you've described, the way this teacher was describing what he wanted you to do was not something that agreed with you, ideologically.
I believe that it is important to remember that the ways you conceptualize and practice playing are not, to date, successful for you.
That doesn't mean these ideas are wrong, per se, but that either they do not suit you or the way you think you are applying them is not how you are actually applying them.
As long as you are ideologically married to certain concepts (and your interpretation of them), there is no point taking further lessons with someone who takes a different approach.
There's absolutely no point seeing a particular teacher (for example, this one) if you're not interested in really trying to implement what they ask of you before passing judgement on whether it will work or not.... it's a waste of your time and money AND their time (and I'm surprised they suggested more lessons, unless you came across more agreeable to their way than would appear from your written account?).
Without trying to be rude... I believe there really are some people who simply cannot succeed:
1) Those who will not practice.
2) Those who will not be taught (think they know better than the teacher)
3) Those who will not take criticism.
I think Zaferis is spot on here:
| zaferis wrote: |
It's possible that the approach needed to get you to a better place comes from a different direction seemingly opposed to the things you've read, studied, or believe.. you will have to get out of your own way and TRUST a teacher, whether it's this one or another.
....and improvement won't happen quickly
Then to argue from the other side - great players aren't always great teachers |
If what you're doing is not working, you need to open your mind to other approaches.
Part of what you are doing that is not working is relying on your own assessment and your own understanding based on materials you've read.
The path to progress lies with a good teacher (one with a record of success as a teacher and someone you will listen to and trust)...
Being unable to afford further lessons presents a real problem here - what you've been doing is not working, and that includes reading (possibly over-reading to the point of confusion) and self-analysis from a perspective you may not fully understand and certainly do not understand from successful experience. |
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jscahoy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | He was seeing my inability to maintain the embouchure shape he requested and at the end of an 1 hour lesson he said that I'm "a difficult case he never had before".
He also added that it's worth trying to take 4 more lessons and if it doesn't help me I should be labelled as "incapable" of playing trumpet well - that is in other words "untalented".
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Hopefully those are not actual quotes. A teacher is supposed to provide encouragement, as well as correction.
All I would say is that, after ten years, any embouchure change is likely to feel unnatural at first. If what he's telling you seems ridiculous, then experiment on your own. Not much to lose at this point, right? I've been playing a lot longer than you, and I'm still tweaking and learning. It seems hard to believe that your best possible embouchure is limited to G on the staff. |
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Denny Schreffler
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: |
...
As long as you are ideologically married to certain concepts (and your interpretation of them), there is no point taking further lessons with someone who takes a different approach.
There's absolutely no point seeing a particular teacher (for example, this one) if you're not interested in really trying to implement what they ask of you before passing judgement on whether it will work or not....
...
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I see a larger issue with a teacher who is "ideologically married" to some of the concepts that this one espouses ...
"You should have more upper lip support on the upper teeth!" - That is more mouthpiece pressure on the upper lip.
"FORGET ABOUT the LOWER LIP! - IT IS JUST TO SEAL THE UPPER LIP FROM BELOW. ALL TRUMPET PLAYING COMES FROM the UPPER LIP -
-Denny |
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TKSop
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny Schreffler wrote: | | TKSop wrote: |
...
As long as you are ideologically married to certain concepts (and your interpretation of them), there is no point taking further lessons with someone who takes a different approach.
There's absolutely no point seeing a particular teacher (for example, this one) if you're not interested in really trying to implement what they ask of you before passing judgement on whether it will work or not....
...
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I see a larger issue with a teacher who is "ideologically married" to some of the concepts that this one espouses ...
"You should have more upper lip support on the upper teeth!" - That is more mouthpiece pressure on the upper lip.
"FORGET ABOUT the LOWER LIP! - IT IS JUST TO SEAL THE UPPER LIP FROM BELOW. ALL TRUMPET PLAYING COMES FROM the UPPER LIP -
-Denny |
IF they're ideologically married to that concept.
IF it's specific advice for a specific student presenting specific problems and is intended to provoke a specific response... then it may be an offhand comment intended to focus the students attention on the change rather than a proclamation of trumpeting gospel truth.
A lesson is not typically the time or place for a deep and long-winded theoretical lecture - especially not when you're dealing with a student who has so much to learn.
This teacher may or may not be good at what they do - I can't defend them when I know nothing about them.
BUT regardless of whether the teacher is worth seeing again, the advice to the student in what you quoted above remains important - there is no point in seeing teachers if you've unable to listen to them. |
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | In all honesty I can tell you - for years I've been trying to get an answer if I had the lack of talent for playing trumpet. The pro I went to honestly told me: "Your trumpet playing talent is below average".
He was honest - right? So if by the end of the 4th lesson I'd be labelled "a hopeless trumpet player" as he promised - would I need to search another teacher? If the next teacher said that I had a good playing potential who would I trust then? Would it mean the next teacher simply wanted to earn some money?
To be honest I'm completely out of money. I can't afford any lessons. If my trumpet playing "talent" is really so low why bother?
If I can't form the embouchure with the "tensed" upper lip that he gives me only 4 attempts to get into - should I really go through all that torture? |
I think it's unreasonable to purport to evaluate someone's "talent" on the basis of one lesson. The only thing that can be evaluated on the basis of one lesson is "demonstrated skill." So, I wouldn't put much credence in your teacher commenting on your "talent" or your future "playing potential."
There are certain mechanics that are involved in successfully playing the trumpet. Those mechanics are consistent and apply to all of us. The more you align yourself with those mechanics the more successful your results will be. The less you align yourself with those mechanics the less successful your results will be.
You can't determine for certain how well a player is aligned with the necessary mechanics by just looking at the player as the player plays. People can look much different one to the other as they're playing yet still be well aligned with the necessary mechanics. That's because our differences in physiology dictate individual differing approaches which, in turn, produce differing looks. The proof is in the results, not in the look of things.
The only reason you would not have the "talent" to play the trumpet with some reasonable degree of success would be because of a physiology that actually prevents you from employing the necessary mechanics. Except for some form of disablement it would be highly unusual to encounter a physiology meeting that description. The fact that you can play within the staff indicates to me that your problem isn't an inconsistent physiology or lack of "talent" but, instead, is a lack of applying the technique necessary to employ the mechanics necessary for successful results.
Your lessons should focus on an explanation of how a correct embouchure works and an analysis of how your embouchure differs from a correct embouchure. Then you have to evaluate whether you're physically capable of changing your embouchure to match the correct embouchure model. Only when you have that information are you really in a position to reasonably predict whether you can be successful on trumpet.
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Jaw04
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | | Jaw04 wrote: | There are many ways to play the trumpet and many opposing beliefs out there. However, none of them will have all the secrets in one lesson. I think the teacher was pretty honest with you and said give it 4 lessons.
Honesty is important here. If you have been playing for years and can't play above a G, you have some pretty big problems in your playing. That is not meant to be cruel or pessimistic. But it is meant to explain that you need to play the trumpet in a much different way, which will take time to develop, with whoever you study with. I would say give the teacher the chance to help you in 4 lessons and follow his advice. If that doesn't work, find another teacher. I personally would stay away from using online videos without someone assessing you 1 on 1. |
In all honesty I can tell you - for years I've been trying to get an answer if I had the lack of talent for playing trumpet. The pro I went to honestly told me: "Your trumpet playing talent is below average".
He was honest - right? So if by the end of the 4th lesson I'd be labelled "a hopeless trumpet player" as he promised - would I need to search another teacher? If the next teacher said that I had a good playing potential who would I trust then? Would it mean the next teacher simply wanted to earn some money?
To be honest I'm completely out of money. I can't afford any lessons. If my trumpet playing "talent" is really so low why bother?
If I can't form the embouchure with the "tensed" upper lip that he gives me only 4 attempts to get into - should I really go through all that torture? |
What are your goals? I apologize if this was answered earlier. If you really want to learn to play at a very high level, many people study at a university for 4 years minimum- practicing, performing, and studying constantly (and to get in they already can most likely play up to high C). The internet is great, but youtube videos won't replace that kind of training. What are you hoping to accomplish? |
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lipshurt
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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if you are having the kind of chop hassels you describe, your path is long and arduous, and frustrating. 2 years of lessons with a great teacher who clicks with you might get you half way there, and thats just to get the chops right. You can be learning technique etc while you iron out your chops of course. I would try TCE next.
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khedger
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | Couple months ago I posted a thread about my playing difficulties that are mostly associated with my extremely limited range up to G on top of the staff.
... snip snip snip ...
That's actually quite the opposite what the local pro told me today.
By the way this local pro as I noticed has very strong muscles around his lips and he plays with a great degree of biting for upper range - which I completely avoid but I can't play those notes at all. If I played his way I would destroy my chops completely. |
I've been playing, on and off, for about 52 years. I'm largely self taught. I've encountered MANY players that were better trained than me. I'm basically a jazz player (though I've done some commercial stuff over the years). I did attend Berklee for a year and was extremely nervous about my first trumpet lesson with Jeff Stout. I had always played a bit to one side and imagined that I had all sorts of embochure problems that would need to be resolved.
The first day Jeff asked if there was anything in particular I wanted to work on and I expressed my concern to him about my 'untrained' embochure. He sat me down, slapped an Arban book in front of me and had me play several different exercises. His conclusion:
"You sound good man, I don't really see any problem with your embochure." When I asked about playing to the side he asked "Do you feel it's causing you a problem, is there any pain or anything?" I replied that there wasn't.
And that was that.
So how did I originally formulate my embochure? I placed the mouthpiece on my lips, about 1/3 top 2/3 bottom like it says in the Arban book, then I practiced my a** off. People can really over intellectualize A LOT of this trumpet playing business. Some of it's good, some of it's about reputation (like an English professor who publishes papers on the number of times that letter 'x' appears in Shakespeare), and some of it's avarice.
That's my two cents.
keith |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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If you've been playing for 10 years and only have a top of staff G, something isn't right. Of course without seeing and hearing you play there's no way to make an informed assessment - but clearly something has to change for the results you're getting to change.
| SaxoTrump wrote: | The major comment he made he wanted me to ingrain into my memory was: "FORGET ABOUT the LOWER LIP! - IT IS JUST TO SEAL THE UPPER LIP FROM BELOW. ALL TRUMPET PLAYING COMES FROM the UPPER LIP - IT SHOULD BE TENSIONED AND CURLED IN. YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR UPPER LIP RELAXED".
He was seeing my inability to maintain the embouchure shape he requested and at the end of an 1 hour lesson he said that I'm "a difficult case he never had before".
He also added that it's worth trying to take 4 more lessons and if it doesn't help me I should be labelled as "incapable" of playing trumpet well - that is in other words "untalented". |
Some of what you've said in the above, assuming you're telling it the way it is, gives me concern about this particular teacher.
The "all playing comes from the upper lip" I regard as just wrong. Someone posted an assertion in here recently that "only the top lip vibrates" and it's nonsense that's easily demonstrated to be nonsense. If you're sucking in your bottom lip where the red disappears, yeah I'd see that as a problem.
Another thing I see as a problem knowing nothing else than what you're relating is trying to effect change by gross manual manipulation of your embouchure, pushing on your chops and saying "they need to be shaped this way". This seems likely to put your lips into a configuration that's going to be counterproductive. What has to happen is the tissue within the mouthpiece has to align so as to create a cooperative buzzing "reed" that yields the sound you want, everything else serves that.
The only effort I put into making my embouchure "shaped" a certain way isn't based on what it looks like externally, it's how it feels when it's shaped in such a way that it allows the reed to form the way it needs to - based on sound - and allows things to change according to volume and pitch - and other elements like "sound effects" I might want to create. Btw I'm happy to actively contradict the notion that the tongue does nothing to change the air.
For myself what creates the embouchure is having the mouthpiece feel anchored on the lips a certain way both on the top and bottom lips, having the right teeth opening and pressure distribution, having the horn angle right. The horn angle is synonymous with how your teeth are aligned. The oral cavity has to be shaped the right way and this changes at different pitches and volume levels. For me the formation of the lips around the mouthpiece is a combination of having things fall where they need to to create the desired sound but also a degree of conscious awareness of where I feel the tension.
I regard the notion of "forget the lips" as just wrong. For example being able to pick off particular pitches only happens because you're able to gauge when you've got the right feel of everything. What happens on the instrument is a result of parts of a whole coming together. If you sound great or not great it's happening because of the totality of what you're doing.
Stating you're "a difficult case he never had before" and then suggesting a specific number of lessons sounds like a veiled admission that he really doesn't know how to help you while at the same time trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of you. Whether you have some physical issue that simply precludes you from ever making progress I can't say. Whether you simply lack the mental acumen to internalize whatever changes you need to make I can't say. For this guy to set himself up as the arbiter of whether you should continue to play trumpet or not if he can't fix your problem seems like a bit of hubris.
Again, having never seen or heard you play, as a very broad guideline - get to where you can make a solid sound within a range that's comfortable for you and then try to expand that. Keep in mind that the higher you go, it absolutely is a different experience than playing lower. Things feel "tighter". If anyone claims this isn't so I say they're full of crap. Ultimately you have to train yourself to make whatever adjustments are needed to play at a given range, move around between ranges.
Anyway, hope this helps.
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Robert P
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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P.S. it *is* entirely possible to make music without having a screaming range. This is Shaye Cohn with her group Tuba Skinny. She has kind of a funky embouchure, puffs out her bottom lip. I don't know if I've ever heard her play a high C but she has a beautiful, solid sound and feel for the traditional jazz that she plays. On this particular piece I think the highest she plays is an A.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGTkBehLVog
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
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SaxoTrump
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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| jscahoy wrote: | | SaxoTrump wrote: | He was seeing my inability to maintain the embouchure shape he requested and at the end of an 1 hour lesson he said that I'm "a difficult case he never had before".
He also added that it's worth trying to take 4 more lessons and if it doesn't help me I should be labelled as "incapable" of playing trumpet well - that is in other words "untalented".
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Hopefully those are not actual quotes. A teacher is supposed to provide encouragement, as well as correction.
All I would say is that, after ten years, any embouchure change is likely to feel unnatural at first. If what he's telling you seems ridiculous, then experiment on your own. Not much to lose at this point, right? I've been playing a lot longer than you, and I'm still tweaking and learning. It seems hard to believe that your best possible embouchure is limited to G on the staff. |
Actually those ARE the quotes from the pro I visited. He is quite a rough person. He didn't allow me to speak much, forced me in certain positions with his hands, moved me around, grabbed my hands to raise or lower them. While he wasn't really hostile or anything like that he treated me like a piece of lumber.
Constant mentioning of his successful students who were naturals and who could play trumpet up side down also wasn't very encouraging.
I'm an intelligent delicate person and I can't really withstand such an attitude. |
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SaxoTrump
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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| Robert P wrote: | | If you've been playing for 10 years and only have a top of staff G, something isn't right. ...
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Interestingly I find quite a lot of amateur players who can only play up to G on top of the staff regardless of how long they play. That range looks like a turning point for many. Why is that?
I found quite a few people on the Internet and in real life in a position similar to mine - they can't go higher than that notorious G. |
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zaferis
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | | Robert P wrote: | | If you've been playing for 10 years and only have a top of staff G, something isn't right. ...
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Interestingly I find quite a lot of amateur players who can only play up to G on top of the staff regardless of how long they play. That range looks like a turning point for many. Why is that?
I found quite a few people on the Internet and in real life in a position similar to mine - they can't go higher than that notorious G. |
"Playing for 10 years" truly means very little. 1 hour a day (every day) times 365 days, time 10 years is 3,650 hours... you are 1/3rd of the way to "Mastery".. (10,000 hours of work to "master" a task) I suspect you're no where near that total.. not being rude, just honest.
Then in those days, 1 hour per day (2 to 3 short sessions), what are you doing and how focussed is that effort.???
I am not surprised that someone can't play above the G on top of the staff - if it were easy, everyone could do it.
I've been doing this since 1980 (when I really started working at it in college).. I'm still adding range.. and still enjoy daily getting in 30-60 of practice above and beyond rehearsals and gigs. As Kobe Bryant said, ".. don't get bored with the basics/fundamentals... the key to greatness"
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Went to a local pro for a lesson - confused and disappoi |
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| SaxoTrump wrote: | ...
Interestingly I find quite a lot of amateur players who can only play up to G on top of the staff ... |
-----------------------------------------------
The most typical cause is excess mouthpiece pressure on the upper lip - too much pressure prevents the lip from being ABLE to vibrate, or the pressure has squeezed the lips so tightly that an aperture cannot be formed - no air flow = no lip vibration or sound.
I think the cause is mainly inadequate early instruction, and the very typical image of a pro trumpet player APPEARING to use massive arm strength for high notes.
The key points are:
1) lip has to be capable of vibrating.
2) lip must be at the proper tension to vibrate at desired pitch.
3) air flow must be enough to 'power' the vibrations.
In the last few years I have done a lot of reading about 'proper' embouchure formation and usage. And I thought that in all my years of early instruction, nobody had ever discussed or explained the 'mechanics' to me. But just a few weeks ago I was going through an old (from the 60's) book and found where my teacher had written -
Use less pressure
Firm corners and balance contact
Bottom range - upper lip
Middle range - both lips
Upper range - lower lip
So an attempt was made to make me understand, but likely I was inattentive, or 'want to go my own way' - so I didn't remember or use that instruction. I just plodded along and was stuck at G above the staff.
I think some teachers fail to emphasize (and repeat) the importance of using a good embouchure that is capable of development in the upper range.
Jay
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KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
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SaxoTrump
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:03 am Post subject: |
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All my range troubles aside, what really bothers me is that from the very beginning on trumpet I had poor results in tone production. Very often after years of playing I find my tone muffled.
I know what a resonant ringing trumpet sound is but I often feel my lips lacking some kind of "freshness" in them even in the beginning of my practice session.
Also I've always had a feeling that my lips were tiring up very quickly. Too quickly.
Is there a chance that I'm just really not suited enough for trumpet physical requirements? |
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Can you whistle a tune for an extended period?
How about doing forceful blowing thru, or sucking on a drinking straw (like with a thick milkshake)?
If you can play decently to the top of the staff with good sound, volume, and endurance, then I'd guess you could extend your range if you used better embouchure technique.
For reading about embouchure, I suggest looking for descriptions that address the basic physical mechanics. Avoid descriptions that are vague or never get to the point of saying 'what to do'.
I've found this to be helpful -
http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/stevens/stevens.pdf
I think it is a 'pirated copy', and there are weird typos and word usage, and some 'mumbo-jumbo' explanations, but the BASIC content seems fine and works for me.
Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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SaxoTrump
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 270
Location: Eastern Europe
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | Can you whistle a tune for an extended period?
How about doing forceful blowing thru, or sucking on a drinking straw (like with a thick milkshake)?
If you can play decently to the top of the staff with good sound, volume, and endurance, then I'd guess you could extend your range if you used better embouchure technique.
For reading about embouchure, I suggest looking for descriptions that address the basic physical mechanics. Avoid descriptions that are vague or never get to the point of saying 'what to do'.
I've found this to be helpful -
http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/stevens/stevens.pdf
I think it is a 'pirated copy', and there are weird typos and word usage, and some 'mumbo-jumbo' explanations, but the BASIC content seems fine and works for me.
Jay |
I can't whistle. I remember in my childhood many mates could whistle and I never could. I have just a hiss coming out.
I can't lip buzz either.
I sometimes can hardly play above middle C. These days my lips feel muffled. No good deep breath helps when my lips feel that way.
So I'm always asking myself and others a simple question: is there a chance there are people like me just not going to make it on trumpet due to some peculiarities of their physical setup whatever that might be?
I mean there are people who are noticeably much less weaker physically than others and who cannot improve their characteristics much with exercises.
The answers I get from trumpet players/teachers is: "I've never met anyone not capable to play up to high C".
Jay - thanks a lot for the link to the Self-analysis pdf. At the very least it would be an interesting read.
They say here self-analysis of trumpet playing is useless but anyway... |
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stickyvalves5900
New Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 6
Location: Jackson, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: |
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You should check out George Rawlin's AIR PLAY method. It was totally worth it for me. Some are great players and not so good as teachers, some are ok players and great teachers, and still others have both. George can really clear things up and I really loved his approach. Best of luck to you.
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