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dmr Regular Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 45 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:25 pm Post subject: Minimizing volume but still practicing effectively. |
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One of my friends has a soon-to-be freshman in high school who is progressing with her trumpet playing. Unfortunately one of her family members is sensitive to louder sounds, which currently limits ability to practice at home.
Aside from leveraging whatever the house has to deaden sound (closed room doors, playing toward/in closet etc), how would others proceed?
A practice mute (especially for extended periods of time, at that stage of development) seems like a bad idea. But, what do y'all think about a bucket-style mute or cup mute? Will that still mess things up? Are there cup or bucket mutes in particular that you would recommend? Other ideas?
Thanks for your thoughts! |
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Bob Stevenson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 1139 Location: Essex, England
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Well we've all been there!....especially here in the UK with dense population and small houses....especially growing up in the brass band tradition of specific practice and long Arban use etc ......
Over the years I practiced in all kinds of weird places;....basements of factories, sheds, corners of fields, a bus inspection pit, a huge range of bathrooms and toilets, a disused quarry, in cars up country lanes, in empty chiurches and chapels, fishing net repair workshop......The sop player in one of my bands used to practice in her sisters cake shop early in the morning.......The list goes on and on when I stop to think!
There ARE silver linings to dark clouds!.....difficult practice conditions force good discipline and planned practice......and people WILL put themselves out to help talented youngsters. Try to negotiate with a local church to use a cubby hole or broom cupboard in return for a quick sweep of the floors.......there are all kinds of places where prople will not mind some 'brassy notes' in return for a little help now and then. This really goes with being a musician.....you can't perform just to the wall, so people skills count a lot! |
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krell1960 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2020 Posts: 148
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Minimizing volume but still practicing effectively. |
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dmr wrote: | One of my friends has a soon-to-be freshman in high school who is progressing with her trumpet playing. Unfortunately one of her family members is sensitive to louder sounds, which currently limits ability to practice at home.
Aside from leveraging whatever the house has to deaden sound (closed room doors, playing toward/in closet etc), how would others proceed?
A practice mute (especially for extended periods of time, at that stage of development) seems like a bad idea. But, what do y'all think about a bucket-style mute or cup mute? Will that still mess things up? Are there cup or bucket mutes in particular that you would recommend? Other ideas?
Thanks for your thoughts! |
You may want to consider a Yamaha Silent brass system. When used with the headphones and set up to give the sound some ambience it helps with some of the annoyance factors of using a whispa type mute and simulates the lack of so called back pressure when playing on most mutes. Its not ideal, all mutes including a good stone-lined cup mute will be a compromise when playing especially in her early development. But these mutes can actually help in chop development when used in certain ways. Super quiet and repetitive HL CLarke like studies and scale exercises are good things to practice on these mutes. Not forcing the air to the point that you start to feel the resistance is key here. In the end using a mute isn't fun, but sometimes necessary to keep the peace.
best of luck to the young trumpeter.
tom |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:52 am Post subject: |
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The Yamaha Silent Brass system is quite expensive and my experience with it is that everybody tried one but sold it soon, often as soon as possible. I had one myself and it was a serious source of frustration for me.
What then?
That depends on what loudness is possible. The main rule is that less loud means less playability.
So a few suggestions:
one of the best options is this one:
https://www.brookmays.com/i--DW5531--Denis-Wick--Trumpet-Mute--Cup.aspx
I suppose this DW cupmute can be played for extended times without harming one's embouchure. And it has a nice soft, round and natural sound. I use it for some practice only because I don't want all that noise all the time. A lot of pros use this one for the same reason. The cup can be adjusted for less sound.
Second, a very good straight mute, less low in the sound so it sounds a little bit softer. The cheap ones are usable but often have intonation shortcomings.
A (very) good one is this one:
https://www.brookmays.com/i--CD171C--Charles-Davis--Mute-Trumpet-Straight-Mute-Copper-Bottom-Charle.aspx
Plays also very easy with good intonation and less sound than the DW cup mute. I am not sure they still are produced so this one maybe one of the last.
After that you come to the real practice mutes, very low loudness but NOT easy to play and not recommended for extended playing.
A very good one is the Wallace studio, it has a little pipe in it for finetuning on sound and loudness.
https://www.brookmays.com/i--TWCM17--Wallace--Studio-Trumpet-Practice-Mute.aspx
There are more options but I don't think the practice mute is the first way to go anyhow.
Often the corks of the mutes has to be filed or sanded for better results. The system is then to adjust the corks so that low Fis is good playable.
Last edited by delano on Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jscahoy Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 415
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:24 am Post subject: |
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I've tried them all, including Silent Brass. Especially for a youngster, you have to consider added weight, as well as stuffiness. For me an aluminum Jo Ral bubble mute was the best compromise, meaning it was merely the least bad option. Practicing with any mute is not ideal, and it's definitely unsatisfying. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2041 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:51 am Post subject: |
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As others have suggested, this is a situation that might require some creativity. Perhaps the person who is sensitive to loud noises could leave the house for a scheduled 30 minutes. The student could practice "open" during that time and then and do additional practicing with a mute.
Or perhaps practice in the garage or at an accommodating neighbor's or friend's house (maybe a fellow trumpet player's).
Practice with a mute is not ideal, but sometimes it is the only solution. If so, the best approach is to choose a mute that quiets the sound just enough without adding too much resistance. In some cases a cup mute -- which the student might already have -- is adequate for that. In other cases, a dedicated practice mute is necessary. Such a mute might be available at the local music store, definitely from Amazon, WWBW, Thompson Music, etc. I like the Denis Wick practice mute for when I need to use one, but there are many options. |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2163 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:56 am Post subject: |
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What's wrong with "playing toward/in closet" in this family's situation?
This has always been my go-to salvation, so much better than sticking anything in the bell.
A bucket mute would be the least evil mute to practice with. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I made a deal with a church to use one of heir practice rooms in exchange for oeriodic musical services.
Regarding mutes, you might find this useful published in the International Trumpet Guild.
https://everythingtrumpet.com/practice-mute-comparison-survey-by-bill-dishman _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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krell1960 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2020 Posts: 148
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: |
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You have to love this place sometimes, everybody pans the silent brass system, but it can be just as effective as any other mute provided it is approached correctly. The new version is super lightweight BTW. In the end determining what mute is correct for "you" becomes an individual process. Also learning how to use each mute, including The "horrible" silent brass system is placed upon the player. Not all shoes fit all feet. I have found it useful enough that it hasn't been tossed. But in the end i use my own homemade "renuzit" practice mute when needed because it works the best.
It is in tune from Low F# to F# above high C. And it cost me $1.99 and ten minutes watching the youtube video about how to make it. It probably is in tune above that too, but i rarely play above that. Not sure i would be sending my freshman year daughter out to churches and parks and abandoned quarry's, during these wacky times either.
look around do some research and let her choose which she likes best.
good luck. |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure with the door closed to the room she is practicing in, it can't possibly be that loud. There really is no need to put a mute in to practice most things. With the recent health situation my wife and one of my daughters are working from home (here). I don't practice with a mute and I am sure that my volume is more than likely greater than a freshman in high school, but I do not play as loud as I possibly can. I'm sure the student won't either. You take it from there. If it still is unacceptable, then you alter the practice space.
Pete |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: |
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This thing about not "bothering" others while practicing got me to thinking the other day.
In all those years of practice were in rooms with open windows (I'm from Hawai'i and we had no A/C) and never had a complaint. When I was younger, I used to swim with sharks, too. Now I wouldn't do either.
My, how sensitivities change - or is it our perception of those sensitivities? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:07 am Post subject: |
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It seems like if it’s just one person, a reasonable person might simply offer to use ear plugs. Right? _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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NoNameJustMe Regular Member
Joined: 06 May 2016 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes if my parents are sleeping or need quiet to focus on something I practice in the garage. This works especially well if you have a detached garage. The downside is less than stellar acoustics but I don't think that's a huge deal. |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Going outside and practicing in a park is a really good thing to do on occasion. People like to hear young people playing instruments for the most part.
Also, practicing very softly in doors is good to do on occasion as well. Mixing up the space the student is practicing in is beneficial. Practicing a lot with a mute, I don't recommend for a young student. |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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hello
lipshurt makes a good point
for practice mute, the best one (in term of free blow, tune, etc) is the Wallace studio practice.
In some circumstances, i use the Soulo bucket mute that is almost like playing open, but cuts the brightness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpUS3IeFLwc
best |
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krell1960 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2020 Posts: 148
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Pete wrote: | I'm sure with the door closed to the room she is practicing in, it can't possibly be that loud. There really is no need to put a mute in to practice most things. With the recent health situation my wife and one of my daughters are working from home (here). I don't practice with a mute and I am sure that my volume is more than likely greater than a freshman in high school, but I do not play as loud as I possibly can. I'm sure the student won't either. You take it from there. If it still is unacceptable, then you alter the practice space.
Pete |
Great point Pete. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Part of me says that a very quiet must could make practicing a real drag because of the lack of feedback. There is a case to be made for an amplified system like the SilentBrass that allows you to hear yourself well. I have a 1st generation SB and I don't hate it but never got in the habit of using the amp. Without using an amplifier I find I prefer using a JoRal Bubble with stem removed. I suspect that I prefer it because the quiet but edgy feedback is more satisfying than dead the dead quiet. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Beyond16 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2020 Posts: 220 Location: Texas Gulf Coast
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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To me, a cornet seems a little easier to play quietly than a trumpet. Especially after warming up. |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:56 am Post subject: |
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I've got a Wallace studio practice on order. I'll let you know how it goes when it comes - may be delayed because C-Virus caused delays.
I've had experience with Yamaha Silent Brass gens I and II, Sshh, Pampet, Best Brass, Denis Wick, probably others as well as Harmon and Straight Mutes, which I don't consider practice mutes. So my experience with the Wallace will have some perspective with it. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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