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rcox6918
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Joined: 16 Apr 2020
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 pm Post subject: Why so high? |
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I'm finding it difficult to understand why this Strad has reached such a high bidding price? It started off at around 700 bucks but now it's nearly $1700! It has signs of red rot, bell crease, dings and dents but why is it so expensive??
The serial no. is only 52xxx not even a proper Early Elkhart.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174295219488
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. But for me, the starting price of $700 was already too high.
Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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darksmoke
Regular Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2020
Posts: 46
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Could be some unknowing parents looking for something for their family, could be that some people just see a couple mouthpieces with some mutes and a velvet background and can't help themselves...beats me.
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Ronnman
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Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Only 2 bidders. Maybe be some shill bidding in play?
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Bidding fever?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 672
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: Bidding fever |
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Bidding fever sounds right. Been there my self to many times.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Bidding fever |
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Shill bidding is my guess. Ten bids by the same user in two days, without any other bids or bidders bidding in between those ten bids.
Those bids took the price from $720 to $1310.
That said, on further thought it is possible that seller is just using eBay for free marketing. If the horn doesn't sell he still gets days of exposure to potential buyers, all the while making sure the horn doesn't sell via eBay and rack up eBay fees. |
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Why so high? |
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| rcox6918 wrote: | I'm finding it difficult to understand why this Strad has reached such a high bidding price? It started off at around 700 bucks but now it's nearly $1700! It has signs of red rot, bell crease, dings and dents but why is it so expensive??
The serial no. is only 52xxx not even a proper Early Elkhart.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174295219488 |
I'm astounded in general by horn prices these days. As another poster said, I guess it's worth whatever someone will pay for it. There must be a lot of people out there with a LOT of disposable income these days, because a lot of these prices are just ridiculous. Just my opinion.
keith |
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LittleRusty
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Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Why so high? |
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| khedger wrote: | | rcox6918 wrote: | I'm finding it difficult to understand why this Strad has reached such a high bidding price? It started off at around 700 bucks but now it's nearly $1700! It has signs of red rot, bell crease, dings and dents but why is it so expensive??
The serial no. is only 52xxx not even a proper Early Elkhart.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174295219488 |
I'm astounded in general by horn prices these days. As another poster said, I guess it's worth whatever someone will pay for it. There must be a lot of people out there with a LOT of disposable income these days, because a lot of these prices are just ridiculous. Just my opinion.
keith |
It is pretty simple. The seller is playing the system. There is no real buyer with a LOT of disposable income.  |
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JayKosta
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Why so high? |
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| LittleRusty wrote: |
It is pretty simple. The seller is playing the system. There is no real buyer with a LOT of disposable income. :wink: |
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But the horn did 'sell', so it's likely Ebay gets whatever fees apply.
I don't know how the fee structure works, is it cheaper for the seller to just 'buy back' the item than to list it with a 'reserve price'?
Looks to me like the final buyer was trying to generate interest from other bidders by raising the bid to make it appear the horn was worth more - then didn't know when to stop.
Jay
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KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
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rjbirnbaum
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Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not an ebay expert or Bach Strad expert, but it all looks reasonable to me. The ebay bid history was actually two bidders, but the partial ids looked similar. Also remember automatic bids are not shown which makes the bidding history harder to interpret. As far as the trumpet, the selling price looked reasonable. Although there is no official definition of an "early Elkhart", 5X,XXX is about 1970 and would normally qualify, plus the bell stamp is Corporation which also is a collectible attribute. The pinky hook and first slide also show early Elkhart design (or at least before the current modern design). The bell creases look nasty but are actually very easy and inexpensive to fix. The rest of the horn looks to be in great condition. Just my two cents |
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Ronnman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2019
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Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:47 am Post subject: |
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FYI - One CAN see the automatic bids on eBay. Just click on the item bids. This will show the resulting bid list. Look to the right near the latest of the individual bids, and select Show Automatic Bids.
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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rockford
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Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:53 am Post subject: |
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We’re lucky in the trumpet world that prices, in comparison to other instruments are generally pretty low. Recently a NY Bach sold for 20K in original condition that was owned by Bach’s family. While that’s a lot for a trumpet it’s just a drop in the bucket compared to violins and other orchestral instruments.
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NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Interesting thread. I already replied above that the horn seems overpriced. Another reason for this is that you're purchasing the horn sight-unseen. Yes, there are pretty good pics on the eBay ad. But we all know that's only part of the story. You can't assess how the horn plays, how the valves feel, or other damage that might not show up in pictures. Note that the seller does not accept returns.
If it was a face-to-face transaction, you could better assess the horn. So for me, since you can't do this, the buyer is assuming more risk, and the horn is worth less.
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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JeffM729
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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Parrish, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | . Note that the seller does not accept returns.
Mike |
Pretty much anything can be returned on eBay.
Seller does not offer returns. You are covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee if you received an item that is not as described in the listing. |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Why so high? |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: |
It is pretty simple. The seller is playing the system. There is no real buyer with a LOT of disposable income. |
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But the horn did 'sell', so it's likely Ebay gets whatever fees apply.
I don't know how the fee structure works, is it cheaper for the seller to just 'buy back' the item than to list it with a 'reserve price'?
Looks to me like the final buyer was trying to generate interest from other bidders by raising the bid to make it appear the horn was worth more - then didn't know when to stop.
Jay |
Yes, it did sell after I made my posts.
While looking at it again I noticed that there is a link to "show automatic bids". When I clicked on it I found there were many more bids that initially shown, about 23 in total.
I hope that whomever was using automatic bids wasn't surprised at the final result and price.
At the end of the day, I think this is overpriced and if I were the buyer I would not be happy with the way the auction went down. But I don't purchase via auctions anyway, so what does it matter what I think?
One other point. To those who feel compelled to compare violin prices to trumpets in order to justify high cost trumpets. For me this is kind of like telling the potential buyer of a used Ford Pinto priced at $5,000 that it is a steal since semi trucks cost a lot more. Who cares? I am not in the market for a used truck nor a violin. (rant over) |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9032
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Why so high? |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | One other point. To those who feel compelled to compare violin prices to trumpets in order to justify high cost trumpets. |
While there are trumpet players who have menageries that are costly but that they really don't need, think also of sax players. Most trumpet players need one of two trumpets, maybe a flugel. As a sax player, I had to have a Soprano, Alto and Tenor sax, a flute and a clarinet. That was the minimum tool kit!
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ronnman wrote: | FYI - One CAN see the automatic bids on eBay. Just click on the item bids. This will show the resulting bid list. Look to the right near the latest of the individual bids, and select Show Automatic Bids.
Ron |
If you make a bid, eBay itself does automatic bidding. You bid your max bid but eBay bids some increment over the current highest bid (not your max), then automatically increases your bid if necessary up to your max. And I'm sure that automatic bidding bots are still in play.
keith |
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khedger
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Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| rockford wrote: | | We’re lucky in the trumpet world that prices, in comparison to other instruments are generally pretty low. Recently a NY Bach sold for 20K in original condition that was owned by Bach’s family. While that’s a lot for a trumpet it’s just a drop in the bucket compared to violins and other orchestral instruments. |
Apples and oranges.....
keith |
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Steve Hollahan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:18 am Post subject: Bach prices |
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New Bachs are over $5000 and still going up. Vincent still worked for Selmer and supervised the shop there until about serial #72,xxx. Many Bachs were made from Mt. Vernon parts in the early years at Selmer.
Serial #52,xxx is very early and Vincent Bach was still there when this trumpet made.
I've played these early Elkhart Bachs and then tend to be incredible.
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