Multiple embouchures?

Dkjcliff · Regular Member Joined: 12 Apr 2020 Posts: 97

I'm in approximately my fourth month of my comeback to trumpet playing after a couple decades. I've been focused on correcting embouchure issues that limited me as a player when I was younger. As part of my experimenting with different set-ups I'm coming to realize that I have at least 3 different ones that work for me.

I have a down-angle embouchure that is most similar to my former set-up from when I was younger, though with more top lip in the mouthpiece. I have a more straight out from the face set-up. And I have recently been toying with an upstream set-up. Each one seems to have certain advantages.

The first set-up allows the most control and precision. It seems best suited for classical playing. The second one gives me a big, warm tone and feels comfortable throughout a decent extent of my range without much pivoting. I could see using this for small group jazz work. The third one seems to provide the best high register. I had been stuck around High G (above C above the staff) for a while, but when I was playing with this embouchure today I was able to quickly break through to an A. It's a brand new set-up for me so I'm hoping it will get more usable, but it was very hard to control in the middle part of my range and took a fair amount of straining (wind power to overcome the compression, not pressure on the lips).

Anyway, I'm looking for input on this situation and wondering if there are successful players out there who use multiple embouchure set-ups depending on the playing situation. And if so any advice on doing this. Or, on the flip side, am I treading down a dangerous path that's bound to lead only to frustration and confusion? Thanks.
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JayKosta · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:17 am Post subject:

With the exception of extremely specialized playing situations, I think having ONE basic embouchure that can easily accommodate minor adjustments WHILE playing is the best approach.

From your description, it seems you use the angle of the mouthpiece on your face to adjust the distribution of mouthpiece pressure between the upper and lower lips and teeth.

I recommend using active control of your lower jaw to regulate the pressure distribution.
It isn't a matter of much actual jaw movement, but rather just active control of the pressure exerted against the mouthpiece rim by the lower lip.

Using the jaw in this way WILL feel odd at first, because likely it is a new method for you.

All too many trumpet players begin by using upper lip pressure almost exclusively (because that works for low & mid-range pitches), and they never learn or think about how the jaw can be used.
When attempting to play higher notes (such as above-the-staff G, and beyond) they resort to increased upper lip pressure - and the pressure can cause pain, injury, and STOP lip vibrations.

Jay
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krell1960 · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2020 Posts: 148

Dkjcliff · Regular Member Joined: 12 Apr 2020 Posts: 97

Thanks for the input.

Jay, you are right that using too much pressure has been a constant struggle for me and was the main source of my past embouchure problems. I am very focused now on trying to minimize pressure, which in some ways has led to the realization that I can make use of several different set-ups. When I eased up, I realized I could position the mouthpiece in ways that didn't work for me before. Regarding use of the jaw, I'm not sure if I'm quite understanding what you describe, but part of my straight out from the face set-up involves jutting out my lower jaw a bit and using it as an anchor to avoid pressure on the upper lip. I also use the roll-in technique with this set-up. But then I have to transition to something more like a pucker with a down-angle when I get up to around A above the staff. I'm getting pretty good at making this transition fluidly. But the new upstream embouchure that works better for the extreme register (extreme for me, at least) is a totally different animal. In all cases, though, I am visualizing the concept of my chops, driven by air, coming to meet the trumpet, rather than the trumpet cramming the chops into a shape that generates sound (which is what I did as a kid).

Tom, thanks for the link to the Gansch video. It's encouraging to know there are successful players who advocate finding what works for you, even if it doesn't comport with prevailing wisdom.

In this comeback I'm coming to believe that there are very few embouchure universals we all must adhere to in order to be good trumpet players. There are certainly concepts we must bear in mind such as proper use of air, avoidance of pressure in ways that prevents vibration or injures your lip, use of the facial muscles, and maybe a couple more. But even when it comes to pressure, in my anecdotal observations, most high note experts show signs of significant use of pressure on their chops, indicating there are ways to use what many of us would consider too much pressure that don't inhibit your ability to play well.

Since I'm not in any groups and don't have any gigs, I figure this is as good a time as any for this type of experimentation.
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kehaulani · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:38 am Post subject:

Regarding a mixed use of embouchure settings, Jeff Smiley, in his The Balanced Embouchure, uses a rolled in-rolled out embouchure (and everything in between) to use various embouchure settings, but finding (subconsciously) smooth transitions in playing, and moving between various registers.

There is a Balanced Embouchure Forum here and you might want to search around it.
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Dkjcliff · Regular Member Joined: 12 Apr 2020 Posts: 97

Thanks Kehaulani. I've spent some time browsing the BE forum, which has contributed to my development of these varying setups. I think my straight out from the face setup is somewhat in line with BE concepts. Does BE embrace the Maggio (and others) pucker technique? Or the Stevens-Costello upstream technique? Or is it only about roll-in and roll-out?

If I had to classify the three setups I'm experimenting with I would say the down-angle is Maggio-inspired, the straight out is BE-inspired, and the upstream is Stevens-Costello-inspired (based on my fairly limited knowledge of each technique). I actually hadn't thought of it in these terms until just now.
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kehaulani · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:37 am Post subject:

I would read the book. http://trumpetteacher.net/
Better for Jeff to speak for himself instead of me speaking for Jeff.
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JayKosta · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject:

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xGfQulfY8

Thomas Gansch seems to be doing well with 3 embouchure set ups.
you have to make it work for you. If three are working for what you need why even question it? there is no right answer. Do what works and gives you the sound you want.

Keep playing!!

regards,

tom[/quote]
I'm not sure what Gansch means by three different emboucheres. He doesn't explain anything other than saying he uses three.
He's a fine player and perhaps an in depth explanation would clear things up for me at least.
I've watched several videos of him playing and can't see what he's talking about. If anyone knows maybe they can post something.
I'm a slight downstream player and when I was playing regularly I used a lot of what Jeff Smiley teaches as well as Jerry Callet. I also used the Caruso exercises and studied with Carmine as well as one of his former students.

cheiden · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:00 pm Post subject:

I've also heard some other trumpet players talk about using three different gears which I always understood to be slightly different embouchure sets, depending on the range they need to cover. I've always understood that these are relatively minor adjustments as opposed to the wig embouchures which generally are only good for eeking out high notes.
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RussellDDixon · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:07 pm Post subject:

As an INDIVIDUAL, find what works for YOU. What works for YOU might not work for someone else.

Walt Johnson rolls his bottom lip in via Maggio
Bill Chase was an advocate of rolling his lip in
Maynard Ferguson and Lynn Nicholson both blow their lips out - unfurl
These are exact opposites.

Maynard, Lynn Nicholson, John Chuddoba, Patrick Hession all play(ed) open equipment and mouthpieces.

Bobby Shew, Roger Ingram, Jon Faddis and Bill Chase all play(ed) relatively tight equipment (throats, back-bores , trumpet bores) ... again, the exact opposites.

YOU have to find what is natural for YOUR physiology.