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Warburton 3C top


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budstahl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: Warburton 3C top Reply with quote

Hi !
Which Warburton top is closest to a Bach 3C ?
I bought an Arturo Sandoval top but I think it's too deep .......
Best regards , Ulf 🎺
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warburton 4M or 4MC.
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budstahl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
Warburton 4M or 4MC.


I have a 4M and that one is more of a 3D !
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budstahl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
Warburton 4M or 4MC.


Which one is the closest ?
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4MC for sure. If you want a deeper 3C, try the Arturo top or 4MD. Shallower, 4M or 4SV.
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budstahl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawler Bb wrote:
4MC for sure. If you want a deeper 3C, try the Arturo top or 4MD. Shallower, 4M or 4SV.


Is 4MD deeper than 4MC ?? 🤔
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delano
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

budstahl wrote:
Lawler Bb wrote:
4MC for sure. If you want a deeper 3C, try the Arturo top or 4MD. Shallower, 4M or 4SV.


Is 4MD deeper than 4MC ?? 🤔


Yes, Warburton does not use the Bach system, they have their own system.

Scroll down to cup shapes:

https://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/trumpet-cornet-and-flugelhorn-mouthpieces#whatis2piecesystem
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been awhile, so I went back to the Kanstul mouthpiece comparator (still available online). The 3C depth falls about halfway between the 4M and 4MC. From a cup volume standpoint, it looks like the 4MC is closer, though the throat openings between the Bach and Warburton are different. Hard to tell for sure because the cup shapes are a little different.
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1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge piccolo trumpet
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budstahl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, is the Arturo Mount Vernon signature top deeper than the " standard " Mount Vernon mouthpiece ?
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Warburton 4MV is between the 4M and the 4MC.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

budstahl wrote:
So, is the Arturo Mount Vernon signature top deeper than the " standard " Mount Vernon mouthpiece ?


Yes, the Arturo is what I would consider a deep bowl cup. If you've ever played a Bach 2-1/2C or 2C, those would be in the ballpark for depth. The Arturo is a large "3C" mouthpiece.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:
The Warburton 4MV is between the 4M and the 4MC.


For me the 4MV was basically the same depth as the 4MC but a different shape. The 4MC sounds and plays great for me, but the 4MV had a slightly fuzzy/airy quality I didn't like.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
It's been awhile, so I went back to the Kanstul mouthpiece comparator (still available online). The 3C depth falls about halfway between the 4M and 4MC. From a cup volume standpoint, it looks like the 4MC is closer, though the throat openings between the Bach and Warburton are different. Hard to tell for sure because the cup shapes are a little different.


The 4MC drops straighter into the bowl cup (more Bach-like) than the 4M. The 4M starts to come in a little on the sides of the drop, making it feel a little smaller & shallower.
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budstahl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 4M and I think It's more like a 3D like it says on Warburton page.
So, is the 4MC or the 4MV the closest to a Bach 3C ?
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach 3C is very shallow, it's the shallowest C-cup made by Bach in my experience. The Warburton M-cup is definitely even more shallow, I played one for some time. The Bach 3C is about the same depth as a Yamaha 14B4 which is meant as a (Bach) D-cup in the Yamaha setup.
I also own a JK 3C which is said to be a clone of a Bach MtV 3C cup but that one is deeper than the regular Bach 3C.
So what are your options? If you want to stay in the Warburton family and at the same time you want the Bach 3C cup depth then the 4MC is your best (closest) option. The 4M is shallower, the Arturo deeper and a little bigger.
The 4MV is simply no C cup, maybe a good mouthpiece (I have no experience with that one) but probably less bright than the C cup. Other options? Buy a Bach 3C or cheaper, a Yamaha 14B4 (the GP even better).
In my experience up to now the Warburton Arturo cup was the best 3C, (but it's true that I don't like the sound of the regular Bach 3C).
If you want a little bit shallower: the Yamaha 14B4 (GP), James Morrison used to play one for years so you will be in good company. I play my 14B4GP still quite regularly, good mouthpiece though I prefer the Yamaha 14D4 (sort of deeper 3C).
And there are lots of 3C clones from almost everybody in the business around but most will be MtV clones so deeper than you probably want.
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play both the M and MV tops.For me the M cup plays brighter than the MV .The MV looks and feels little deeper than the M giving it more cup room .I know one player who felt the M felt too shallow not giving him sufficient lip room,but said the MV gave the room he needed.I do feel the M is closer to a Bach D cup.

As far as which cup is closest to a Bach 3C, the,MV or MC.Only you can decide which one is right for you.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
The Bach 3C is very shallow, it's the shallowest C-cup made by Bach in my experience. The Warburton M-cup is definitely even more shallow, I played one for some time. The Bach 3C is about the same depth as a Yamaha 14B4 which is meant as a (Bach) D-cup in the Yamaha setup.
I also own a JK 3C which is said to be a clone of a Bach MtV 3C cup but that one is deeper than the regular Bach 3C.
So what are your options? If you want to stay in the Warburton family and at the same time you want the Bach 3C cup depth then the 4MC is your best (closest) option. The 4M is shallower, the Arturo deeper and a little bigger.
The 4MV is simply no C cup, maybe a good mouthpiece (I have no experience with that one) but probably less bright than the C cup. Other options? Buy a Bach 3C or cheaper, a Yamaha 14B4 (the GP even better).
In my experience up to now the Warburton Arturo cup was the best 3C, (but it's true that I don't like the sound of the regular Bach 3C).
If you want a little bit shallower: the Yamaha 14B4 (GP), James Morrison used to play one for years so you will be in good company. I play my 14B4GP still quite regularly, good mouthpiece though I prefer the Yamaha 14D4 (sort of deeper 3C).
And there are lots of 3C clones from almost everybody in the business around but most will be MtV clones so deeper than you probably want.


Agree with all of the above. 4MD would be a little deeper/fuller sounding than the 4MC, but not quite as big as the Arturo.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:
I play both the M and MV tops.For me the M cup plays brighter than the MV .The MV looks and feels little deeper than the M giving it more cup room .I know one player who felt the M felt too shallow not giving him sufficient lip room,but said the MV gave the room he needed.I do feel the M is closer to a Bach D cup.

As far as which cup is closest to a Bach 3C, the,MV or MC.Only you can decide which one is right for you.


Yep, totally agree.
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budstahl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the 4MC is the closest then, to a Bach 3C, even if it is not very close.......
If I want an exact copy of a Bach 3C ( top ), are there any other mouthpiece makers that makes one ?
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can buy a Bach 3C top, it will fit a Warburton backbore (3/8" 40tpi thread) and it will have the same 27 throat.
But it is 40 Us dollar cheaper to buy the whole 3C mouthpiece so it makes only sense if you want another backbore than the standard 10 bb.

http://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=197_213_214_1155&products_id=22196
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