Playing with an overbite

[the chief]

Most players play the horn with the mpc usually at a right angle from the chin/face (3:00). When I play, I must have the horn pointed down, at about 4:00, otherwise I cannot play.

I think it looks cooler at 3-o-clock, but I dont think I would ever be able to change my chops in such a manner to completely change the angle of the horn to my face.

Are there any other players that have this 'condition'?

[ This Message was edited by: the chief on 2003-12-27 15:04 ]

[drunkiq]

hmm..

i push out my bottom jaw to even up the front teeth....

-marc

[Jon]

I play with the trumpet at 4 o'clock but I don't have an overbite. It has never bothered me which I'm thankful of.

[LeeC]

Dude, check around. Either a majority or a large minority of trumpet players play with a horn angle less than 3o o'clock. I do too.

The only thing I've noticed about those that have a significant overbite is that the tend NOT to occupy the lead chair of major bands. The really high screamers (notes around double C) just don't seem to respond very often on embouchures that utilize the overbite embouchure. One exception: the last time I went to see Maynard his lead player, a young cat, had an angle so low that he had his mouthpiece bent upwards. That dude had incredible range. Always exceptions to the rule.

It is sometimes difficult to play at or above 3:00. I can do it but needed to switch to a very large mouthpiece in order to get resonance. The results were an increase in register to well above double C. Don't have all the bugs worked out of this system yet, but it's improving rapidly.

[ This Message was edited by: leesbrass on 2003-12-28 12:28 ]

[shofar]

[quote]
On 2003-12-28 12:27, leesbrass wrote:
The really high screamers (notes around double C) just don't seem to respond very often on embouchures that utilize the overbite embouchure. One exception: the last time I went to see Maynard his lead player, a young cat, had an angle so low that he had his mouthpiece bent upwards. That dude had incredible range. Always exceptions to the rule.

Hey Lee:

I think there are probably more exeptions to what we sometimes thinks of as "the rule" than what we realize. Another great example is Howie Shear who played lead for Woody, is a great jazz player and a great classical player and works a lot, lead, jazz or other, here in LA. I believe no matter what the structure of our teeth anyone can learn to play well, at whatever level they desire. Too many success stories like the one you present about Maynards lead player and Howie. Well have a great New Year. Rog

[Chaser]

Two more:
Craig Johnson who when above high G, his horn angled at 4:30 or 5:00.
Mark Zauss plays right at about 4:00 or 4:30 for everything.

Both of these guys are EXTREMELY strong lead players.

[LeeC]

Always someone talks about the exception. You'll even find folks who live to 90 and both smoke and drink.

Generally speaking though: Those that play with a significantly receded jaw will have a rougher go of it upstairs. I find that evidence hard to refute. Just go to trumpetstuff.com and check out the videos of Anderson, Lin, Maynard, Chase, Nicholson, and Faddis. These guys play at or close to three o'clock.

What the receded jaw cats need to do is to practice a lot more (than the more naturally gifted) to maintain register and endurance up high. Practicing being the main equalizer.

[Chaser]

I think that most of the guys you have mentioned play with some variation of the Stevens-Costello embouchure. The hallmark being the horn very horizontal.

The 'overbite' guy has to work harder, but can build the same range (according to Pops Mclaughlin), and has an easier time with a full tone upstairs.

[LeeC]

Here I go again arguing a possibly unecessary point.

MOST receded jaw players can not play as high as a player who is good example of Stevens Costello. We're talking triple C's here folks! Receded jaw players USUALLY do not have access to anything like that kind of register.

What my research has come up with is that the receded jaw player often has to exhaust his physical stamina just to attain a soft high G or higher. So this kind of player GENERALLY doesn't have the double to triple C range. Yet according to Reinhardt and my own personal experience, receded jaw players can really bomb those notes upstairs that they do have.

You'll hear some really ear splitting high G's from a good receded jaw lead player. Unfortunately that's usually as far as his register goes. Fortunately a good high G is probably all one really needs. Unfortunately the general public (translation: "paying customer") usually doesn't care about high notes on the trumpet (lol). Many would prefer that we didn't play so many high notes. Especially landlords and other old farts.

Now a good Stevens Costello player is able to easily play a high G and then some from the very start. His problem (usually) is to get a good volume out of the note.

I've been able to play a hybrid of the Costello method (in addition to my other original, receded jaw setting) I call this ERE for extended range embouchure. It's still in the R & D phase but seems to solve some of the volume issues often inherent in the Costello version. Dudes, there is no way I could ever play THAT high on my receded jaw setting.

Where the Stevens/Costello method failed was in the assumption that anyone could pull it off. Not so. I have a copy of the rare and out of print "Stevens/ Costellon triple C embouchure technique. In it both Roy Stevens and William Costello insist that all players play with at least an even jaw to protruded jaw setting. They also recommended a very rolled in lip setting. All well and good except of course that it only works for a minority of those who try it.

Still, Stevens Costello is fascinating reading. Shows the diagram listing ALL of the embouchure muscles as well as certain applicable physical "laws" that concern upper register performance. A true must for high note scholars (aka: trumpet geeks).

Lee

[ This Message was edited by: leesbrass on 2003-12-29 12:30 ]

[the chief]