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JonathanM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2018
Location: Charleston, SC
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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | Would any of you know if a Benge can be warmer than the Silver Flair?
Is the Silver Flair mainly a lead horn or would it fit in with a typical wind ensemble? |
I've had several Benge's (still have the 4x, had a great 3x, and a 3x+), and compared to the only Silver Flair I had (which was quite an impressive horn - video above) - the Benge's were by and large brighter horns. In time I'll probably try another Silver Flair; I wonder if mine was darker than most?
I think the Silver Flair I had could definitely work as a lead horn with proper mouthpiece and player ability, but mine was more of a do-it-all horn than specifically a lead horn.
I did find my SF to be quite impressive... Excellent tone and an easy horn to fill.
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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Sir_Ricardo
Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2023
Posts: 19
Location: either playing my trumpet or playing my guitar
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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here is the trigger....I don't know what you can tell from this photo
https://imgur.com/a/7kdGQy9
here is the abrasion from a prior owner's use
https://imgur.com/B2ZQL9R[/img]
Last edited by Sir_Ricardo on Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sir_Ricardo wrote: | here is the trigger....I don't know what you can tell from this photo
[img]https://imgur.com/a/7kdGQy9[/img]
here is the abrasion from a prior owner's action
[img]https://imgur.com/a/iE2aGR7[/img] |
The trigger bar is definitely not straight. It is quite wave and that is why it doesn't clear the 1st valve. A tech should be able to straighten it up fairly well carefully.
Here is where your first bend starts.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3309
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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It might be that a wrong (too many coils) spring was installed, and the width of the spring forces the lever too near to the valve casing.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: |
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It might be that a wrong (too many coils) spring was installed, and the width of the spring forces the lever too near to the valve casing. |
No you can clearly see the trigger is bent in several places.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Sir_Ricardo
Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2023
Posts: 19
Location: either playing my trumpet or playing my guitar
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Could it be possible that the second screw should be screwed in more? The one that holds the tines? I ask because there appears to be a gap between the trigger and the 'end position' on that barrel (if these terms make sense).
I was able to screw the second screw in a bit, and it screwed in without any real resistance. It could go in a bit more. As it screws in, it pushes the tine part of the trigger in, thus pushing the paddle portion AWAY from the 1st valve casing.
thoughts? It might work..... |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Sir_Ricardo wrote: | Could it be possible that the second screw should be screwed in more? The one that holds the tines? I ask because there appears to be a gap between the trigger and the 'end position' on that barrel (if these terms make sense).
I was able to screw the second screw in a bit, and it screwed in without any real resistance. It could go in a bit more. As it screws in, it pushes the tine part of the trigger in, thus pushing the paddle portion AWAY from the 1st valve casing.
thoughts? It might work..... |
Anyway you look at it, where I posted your trigger is badly bent. Other than getting it straightened, I don't think there will be much you can do. If I need to take more pics of mine and then compare it to yours I can do it.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Sir_Ricardo
Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2023
Posts: 19
Location: either playing my trumpet or playing my guitar
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]
It might be that a wrong (too many coils) spring was installed, and the width of the spring forces the lever too near to the valve casing.[/quote]
I see that chef8489's trigger spring has the same number of coils - 4 - as does mine, so it would appear to not be related to the spring. Good thought, though. |
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Sir_Ricardo
Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2023
Posts: 19
Location: either playing my trumpet or playing my guitar
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | As long as we're at it, does anyone know it's tone? Like a Severensen, Benge or more middle core like a Bach? In other words, is it a bright horn? |
Here's a couple of things I did on mine.
I'm the trumpet behind the singer. Using a Jet-Tone T1A on both examples.
https://on.soundcloud.com/6TDDD
Part of Tuxedo Junction. I'm all trumpets - everything else is MIDI. Early experiment combining live and MIDI
https://on.soundcloud.com/p4sWF |
Very nice tones! |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sir_Ricardo wrote: | | Robert P wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | As long as we're at it, does anyone know it's tone? Like a Severensen, Benge or more middle core like a Bach? In other words, is it a bright horn? |
Here's a couple of things I did on mine.
I'm the trumpet behind the singer. Using a Jet-Tone T1A on both examples.
https://on.soundcloud.com/6TDDD
Part of Tuxedo Junction. I'm all trumpets - everything else is MIDI. Early experiment combining live and MIDI
https://on.soundcloud.com/p4sWF |
Very nice tones! |
Thanks! Believe it or not that girl singer is strictly a hobbyist - she's never done a paying gig - beautiful voice. Amazing how much talent there is out there.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| chef8489 wrote: | | JayKosta wrote: |
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It might be that a wrong (too many coils) spring was installed, and the width of the spring forces the lever too near to the valve casing. |
No you can clearly see the trigger is bent in several places. |
Mine clears the valve casing by approx 1.5 mm going by an eyeball reckoning based off my spoke length measuring tool marked in mm.
There have to be bends in the trigger to clear the 1st valve slide and have the fork sit in the right place on that nylon roller, his clearly needs adjusting - I wonder if there might be wear on that shaft the trigger is sitting on - it's been a while since I changed the spring on mine, I don't recall if there's a bushing between the shaft and the trigger - it seems there should be to prevent metal-metal contact on that shaft.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | chef8489 wrote: | | JayKosta wrote: |
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It might be that a wrong (too many coils) spring was installed, and the width of the spring forces the lever too near to the valve casing. |
No you can clearly see the trigger is bent in several places. |
Mine clears the valve casing by approx 1.5 mm going by an eyeball reckoning based off my spoke length measuring tool marked in mm.
There have to be bends in the trigger to clear the 1st valve slide and have the fork sit in the right place on that nylon roller, his clearly needs adjusting - I wonder if there might be wear on that shaft the trigger is sitting on - it's been a while since I changed the spring on mine, I don't recall if there's a bushing between the shaft and the trigger - it seems there should be to prevent metal-metal contact on that shaft. |
When I said his is bent in several places, his bends left quite a bit. My trigger is quite straight as have been most of my silver flairs over the years till you get to the actual pad wgwhere your thumb goes and that angles to the right a bit. I tried to draw lines on his bends.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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