Bach Finish Warranty Experiences

[Bb Bob]

Hi Folks,

Has anyone had experience with Bach regarding lacquer loss? There is a five year warranty and I didn’t see anything regarding finish exceptions. I’ll be starting the process of making contacts this coming Monday.

My 4 year old 19037 50th Anniverary has 3 spots; one on the bottom of the bell crook and a one on each of the 1st and 2nd valve balusters, where my right thumb goes.

This horn does not get a lot of use as I’m just a hobbyist that rotates horns.

Hoping to hear some success stories as I’d hate to hear this is normal. I don’t have this problem with my other lacquered horns.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences.

Best regards,

Bob
_________________
Trumpets: Edwards X13, ACB Copernicus, Benge CG, Olds LA Studio ‘53
Cornets: Adams CN2, Wild Thing Short, Olds Studio ‘58, Schilke XA7
Flugelhorn: Kanstul 1525

[Bflatman]

I agree it is a clear warranty issue.

There are not supposed to be any defects in the finish within the warranty period.

You have a strong case.

Simply follow their advice, it will I am sure be resolved satisfactorily.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[LittleRusty]

It is possibly a warranty issue, but possibly not.

To me, the OP's description indicates an issue at the wear points where the horn is gripped. If this is true it can be argued that the OP's body chemistry or lack of wiping down after playing is responsible. My hands ate through the silver on my trumpet back in my college and post-college days. Even the base metal was pitted.

I expect it to be an uphill battle to get the OP's trumpet fixed, but I really hope that it is not and Bach fixes it without any push-back.

Take a lot of detailed pictures. Make sure the pictures clearly show the issue.

Good luck.

[LittleRusty]

I thought I would do a little research on Bach(Selmer) warranties.

There doesn't seem to be much detail on what the warranty covers based on the bach brass website. The text there seems to be focused on limiting ancillary damages, not on what is and isn't covered. Having written information that you can use to show your damage should be covered would be helpful.

I don't know if you found this on the Bach website

[Bflatman]

It is a gray area.

My own opinion comes from manufacturing in many disciplines.

Warranty covers early failures of the equipment in normal use.

Warranty claims are denied where the player has damaged or otherwise abused the equipment.

For example a dent is not a warranty issue.

The question is has the laquer loss been a result of normal use or is it the result of abuse.

I would argue that if a warranty has been issued on an instrument then that includes all of the instrument.

Failure of the laquer at the normal holding places and contact points is therefore covered regardless of the body chemistry of the player.

Or does the manufacturer believe that instruments must only be on show in cabinets and not played for the warranty to be valid.

The instrument can be expected to be played and the instrument must be held in order to be played. This cannot be denied.

It is also not acceptable that the manufacturer argues that only some players are covered under the warranty. All players must be covered or the warranty is a sham.

A warranty is enforceable in law and the manufacturer cannot run away from their responsibility simply because it is inconvenient for them.

If it is possible that a player has aggressive body chemistry and the laquer is affected by this the manufacturer must honor the warranty or they should not have issued a warranty in the first place knowing that in some cases the instrument will fail before the warranty expires.

The only excuse could be in the detail of the warranty if it specifically excludes players with aggressive body chemistry from the warranty cover.

If the laquer on this instrument is failing under similar conditions to other laquers on other instruments that do not fail then the laquer on this instrument can be said to be defective.

All defective parts of an instrument are covered under warranty.

The manufacturer sold the instrument on the understanding that the laquer would not fail during the warranty period and the laquer failed during the warranty period therefore the manufacturer is liable.

If the paint on a door of an automobile wore off at the contact points of the door and the handle in normal use within the warranty period there would be no question the manufacturer would honor the warranty and repaint the door. Why should it be any different on a trumpet.

Excessive use is not defined in warranties and therefore "in normal use" can be taken to mean very frequent use, a well used instrument is covered under warranty just as much as a lightly used instrument.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[stumac]

Please let us know the outcome, I have not seen a current warranty from Bach, the older certificate I have states that the lacquer is not covered, this is from when they used Nitro Cellulose lacquer I think.

I had a client once return a $50 item I sold him 15 years previously for repair under warranty, he was most apologetic when this was pointed out and he purchased a new one.

After 4 years it could be hard to differentiate between manufacturing defect or normal wear and tear.

Regards, Stuart.

[Bb Bob]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I agree that finish loss could be difficult to resolve. Although, it shouldn’t be if it happens during the warranty period.

The loss on the Valve Balusters, where you thumb goes under the lead pipe, could be attributed to wear and tear. If “normal”, you would think the manufacturing process would allow for it. There is no loss on the lead pipe.

The loss on the bell crook, actually forward the bend next to the 3rd valve slide, appears to be a large flake. That area would only have contact when putting the horn away. I’ll have to check the case

I do own an Olds Trumpet with warranty card that does state lacquer not being covered. I’ve always thought it was a cellulose problem not the newer lacquers used in modern instruments.
_________________
Trumpets: Edwards X13, ACB Copernicus, Benge CG, Olds LA Studio ‘53
Cornets: Adams CN2, Wild Thing Short, Olds Studio ‘58, Schilke XA7
Flugelhorn: Kanstul 1525

[Divitt Trumpets]

Lacquer is rarely covered unless it is a clear problem, like the entire instrument flaking off or excessive acid bleed.

Finishes on instruments are not considered permanent.
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[Goldplate]

I don't have experience with Bach's warranty, but I had experience with another manufacturer. I had a two year old trumpet with gold lacquer coming off in many places, not just normal contact points. When I inquired about it being under warranty, they responded that finishes were not covered under warranty. Hopefully, things work out better for you.

[Irving]

To the OP: you should have an idea of what you would like Bach to do if they cover your warranty. I don't think they would replace your horn with a new one. They might offer to relacquer it. In that case, they would strip the lacquer, rebuff and relacquer the horn. This might change the horn. Be aware of that. Then again, it might not.

[Speed]

I had a positive experience with Bach on a warranty issue, although it was a valve issue, not a finish issue. One thing to remember is that - unless they have changed their policy since the problem I experienced - you should contact the retailer from whom you purchased the trumpet, rather than going to Bach directly. The dealer will take it from there.

Take care,
Marc Speed

[J. Landress Brass]

Most companies do not warranty lacquer. If the horn was a few months old and the lacquer was flaking off I would see this as a warranty issue, however 4 years it is normal wear, especially at the contact points.
_________________
Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com

[SterlingBell]

I have purchased 7 Bach Strad trumpets and cornets brand new since 1967. I have worn through the lacquer at contact points within 3 months and silver plate within a year. It’s my body chemistry. My 43 Sterling bell that I bought in 1990, I had gold plated after I bought it. It started to wear about 10 years ago, but is still pretty good.

[Bb Bob]

Hey Everybody,

Got my Bach 19037 back today! It took some time and a lot of emails. But the folks at WWBW and Bach Selmer came through. Honored their warrenty and made repairs that are not noticeable. The horn looks brand spanken new.

Thanks to the folks here that, through there responses, encouraged me to persevere.

Best regards,

Bob
_________________
Trumpets: Edwards X13, ACB Copernicus, Benge CG, Olds LA Studio ‘53
Cornets: Adams CN2, Wild Thing Short, Olds Studio ‘58, Schilke XA7
Flugelhorn: Kanstul 1525

[Winghorn]

I don't think it is a good idea for anyone on this forum to determine the meaning of a particular warranty or speak in absolute terms about what is and isn't legal regarding its application.

What a warranty does and does not cover is subject to interpretation and may ultimately require judicial intervention to settle matters.

[LittleRusty]

Congratulations. Good for you, WWBW and Bach.

[Winghorn]

+1, LittleRusty!

[LittleRusty]

[Winghorn]

Am I really that contrary?

[LittleRusty]