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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | When is the search for the 'best equipment' finished?
Never.
And how much time and money is involved?
Nobody knows.
If (as some have claimed) that is takes weeks of use to verify some perceived improvement, then just doing a quick try-out and then purchase could be a long and costly road.
Yes, so only a quick try-out maybe the wrong method.
Jay |
Don't understand this post I believe. |
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OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2441
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | When is the search for the 'best equipment' finished? And how much time and money is involved?
If (as some have claimed) that is takes weeks of use to verify some perceived improvement, then just doing a quick try-out and then purchase could be a long and costly road.
Jay |
So long as advancements in design continue to offer additional advantage, it is never finished.
Personally, I have never had a days-later surprise about a horn. I work very hard at making sure I understand where I am at when play testing (using known quantities to baseline myself) and the clearing my mind of all preconceptions based on look, feel, brand, sales guy's opinions, etc. I have enjoyed the privilege of discussing play testing at length with Dale Olson and Byron Autrey - maybe that (and having tried out so many hundreds of different horns of every tier and condition) has made my approach to it different from that of others - so I can tell in an hour or so, often in minutes, how a horn fits with me and what its attributes are. I think with proper mental discipline, anyone can (Dale disagrees. . . .)
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | I think that especially the top players are the ones we have to watch. They are at least the examples of tone, articulation, maybe interpretation and so on. I would love to have lessons from top players so I don't understand your feelings about that.
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As far as I know nobody said that one size fits all. |
Nobody's saying it, but many arguments are in the form 'It applies to this person/situation, so it proves/disproves the OP's statement'.
I'll try to explain what I mean with another example:
Suppose Lionell Messi proved that you can win a championship football match wearing flip flops. Does that mean you should go about telling every 10-year old to wear whatever they want because footwear doesn't matter to Messi? You wouldn't, because a 10-year old doesn't have the skill to compensate running around on a wet field in poor shoes. Instead, you tell them to get a decent pair of football shoes that'll help them with their traction. Messi personally doesn't have a problem taking penalty kicks in any form of footwear (his skill compensates in whatever his gear is lacking), so he doesn't consider it an issue. For the question whether football gear makes a difference, he's a poor example for the earlier mentioned 10-year old. For anything else regarding football he's one of the best examples out there to emulate and learn from.
And yes, I'm sure you can pick my example apart on semantics but it's not meant to be taken literally, but rather as a hypothetical example of:
1) how different skill levels may potentially have relevance to the importance of gear
2) why pro's are awesome examples/benchmarks for a lot of things, but not always for everything |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I am afraid that your football example is not fitted to explain what is wrong with mr. Sandoval teaching.
I watched the Sandoval masterclass again, very amusing and interesting but maybe he exaggerated the whole Indian/arrow thing here a little bit to make his point. Sometimes that is necessary from a pedagogic point of view.
Certainly no ground to believe that you don't need a good instrument. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | I am afraid that your football example is not fitted to explain what is wrong with mr. Sandoval teaching. |
That's because it wasn't intended to be used as a way to criticize Mr. Sandoval's teaching, but rather to explain to you how I disagreed with the OP's statement that gear is irrelevant because some top players demonstrate how gear is irrelevant to them, and then have others apply that as a blanket statement to all trumpet players.
You stated that you didn't understand my earlier post so I tried to explain. Reading back I think we are on the same page, so no need to attack me on any fine point you can find (and some you can twist my words into). |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:24 am Post subject: |
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No reason to start a fight so let's clear up.
I really think you don't understand some important things about the gear matters or not discussion. Do you really believe mr. Trent Austin is going to advise his customers to buy an Alibaba trumpet instead of all his fancy horns? What else could mr. Sandoval do in a masterclass to a hall full of players who are raving for 14A4 mouthpieces and lead trumpets than showing that he could do his thing on any trumpet? Please see these things in their context. He was not at all showing that only he could do that, on the contrary, he tried to convince the audience that they all could do that. Try to see it that way.
I read everything here again and again but could not find that I stated anywhere that I did not understand any of your posts.
I am not aware that I twisted your words somewhere. But maybe it looks like that because you construct your posts quite slick, with a built-in safety which makes the necessary interpretation more arbitrary. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | No reason to start a fight so let's clear up. |
Fine, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Last edited by deleted_user_687c31b on Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | ... What else could mr. Sandoval do in a masterclass to a hall full of players who are raving for 14A4 mouthpieces and lead trumpets than showing that he could do his thing on any trumpet? ... |
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The Sandoval example might not work in every situation - given that the trumpets in that room were likely all in reasonable playing condition, given the setting of an adult masterclass.
My guess is that Sandoval has tried some trumpets that he declared worthless and unplayable.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2441
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | My guess is that Sandoval has tried some trumpets that he declared worthless and unplayable. |
Over and over until Kanstul got it exactly to his liking?
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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