How do I supersize my Bach 7C?

hmwhitsell · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject: How do I supersize my Bach 7C?

I am a comeback player after 20+ years. Chops are getting stronger but I cannot seem to find any mouthpieces that I enjoy more than my Bach 7C! I love everything abut it EXCEPT that I need my sound to be bigger...I need to fill the space! My 2C and 1C do a good job of give my sound a boost but I want the mouthpiece to have the same feel as my 7C. Same cup, same rim, same grip! I just need it to have a wider diameter...does such a mouthpiece exist?

I have been all over Kanstul Comparator looking for such a mouthpiece and cannot find it. Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated...

Harry
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cheiden · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:17 pm Post subject:

For folks that don't dislike the bite of a Bach 7C I sometimes recommend trying a Bach 5C. It's not really the same but you might find it more similar feeling than the 1C or 2C.

Another possible direction would be to try the 7B which will have a deeper cup and more open backbore.
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jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 668

I agree with Cheiden try a Bach 5 C mouthpiece.
On my trumpet, I play a Bach megatone 5 B,5 C mouthpieces.
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JonathanM · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject:

Or for a larger sound you could have the throat drilled out a bit. That'll definitely keep the rim the same but give more volume.

Symphony players often seem to use Bach pieces but instead of the 27 drill they go to a larger 24 drill or so.

Food for thought.

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hmwhitsell · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:44 pm Post subject:

I have played the 5C and there is something about it that does sit well...I find myself missing notes occassionally and I just don't like the way my lips feel against the rim. Someone suggested that it was due to the alpha angle?

I love the idea of drilling out the throat! Do you think it will make a as big an impact as a larger cup? Is that something I can get done locally or will I need to send it in to someone? I have seen the option on Mouthpice Express, just never considered it for the ole 7C...
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JoseLindE4 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791

If you're freshly relearning the instrument, I recommend that you just stick to something middle of the road that plays relatively comfortably and you can make a decent sound on. There's no reason that you can't produce great sounds on a stock 3c, 5c, 7c, or whatever.

I'd recommend lots of self-recording and practice instead of modifying mouthpieces. If you're unable to produce a big enough sound for your liking, the problem is either perception of what a "big" sound is, your approach to the horn, or most likely a developmental issue -- you might just need some more thoughtful practice (we all do, for the rest of our lives).

Copying the specialized equipment modifications of a professional player in a large symphony orchestra, with its very specific demands, seems unhelpful for a comeback player.

Get your hands on a handful of normal, stock, moderate-sized mouthpieces, and find one that seems reasonably playable, ignore the rest of the mouthpieces, and learn to make that one mouthpiece sing. Occasionally assessing if your equipment is best for you is fine, but your sound, accuracy, etc. is produced between the ears.

I guess if the fun is trying out lots of tricked out equipment, go crazy, but if the fun is playing beautifully, then find something that works reasonably well and learn to make it work really well.

kehaulani · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject:

Have you tried a Schilke 11? Like Herseth's 7C but with a friendlier rim and slightly lower bowl.
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Les Gladdis · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject:

Try Bach
2. 6 or 5A (All Deep) Plenty On Ebay
Or to the extreme 5V very similar to wick 4, size wise and like the inside of a concrete mixer
l have all and each play well, fills instrument, tone beuitiful and lyrically with my small bore instruments , Bach 184ml Cornet, Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Cornet & Medium Bore Mount Vernon trumpet
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blbaumgarn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705

I played the 1c from age 13 forward. Still have it. Now i use a 5b. I agree that the 5c felt cutting against my mouth. The 5b gives me a little more comfort. The 1c I have is a Mt. Vernon as I got it in '63. Wonder what a new one would feel like today. Kehaulani's advice is good also. Anything put together by Renold and Bud Herseth has to be good.
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TKSop · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:04 pm Post subject:

You're a comeback player, chops still improving... Best way to get a bigger sound is more practice - listen to bigger sounds, know how you want to sound and just keep on practicing. Be patient!

Switching gear will only delay your progress unless what you're using now is completely inappropriate (which it doesn't sound like it is).

Nothing about a 7C stops you getting a big sound - bigger throats and cups might add something to an already big sound, but if you're not ready for it then all it's going to do is gas you out much faster.

My golden rule for gear changes is to only ever consider it when you're in good practice - otherwise you're just blaming gear for your lack of practice, looking for shortcuts and compromising your progress.

delano · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:26 pm Post subject:

Maybe it sounds disappointing to you but the only good advice is from TKSop her above. Nothing to add but that.

AJCarter · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:09 am Post subject:

Not sure your budget, but I had a friend who tried the Jeff Curnow Warburton top and described it as a "larger 7C" in feel. Not sure if my friend or maybe even Jeff would see this post and comment, or maybe one of the Warburton folks.

Also FWIW, the Kanstul comparator shows that a 1-1/2C has a similar rim contour and bite to a 7C, with a slightly shallower C shaped cup. Could be worth a try. I had a 5B for a long time that had been opened up in many dimensions, Eventually I went to a 7A because I liked the rim and it was also nice and open however.. the sound doesn't cover quite as much ground as a mouthpiece with more side to side cup volume. In my safari and studies, it seems that depth helps more to color the sound than to make it expansive.

And not that it was asked, I now use a Yamaha 17B4 because I like the rim, and it forces me to play properly lest I be punished by it's size for poor playing habits. Also, I do concur with TK; you need more time to practice. Find a good sound then decide if you need to change.
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Richard III · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:49 am Post subject:

Try Curry. 7BC is my favorite all round mouthpiece from Curry. And unlike Bach, scaling up or down doesn't mean a change in rim contour, cup or anything else. The Bach system is nuts.
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PMonteiro · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:08 am Post subject:

BobD · Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:26 am Post subject:

The suggestion of a Bach 7(no letter) seems like it might be worth a try. Also, how old is your 7C? They can be very different.

I have one from my elementary days(I'm 57 now) that has a pretty sharp rim and I actually like it very much. It is marked "VINCENT BACH CORP. 7C" which puts it in the 1970's. I also have one that is marked "VINCENT BACH CORP 7C" (no period) that is supposed to be from the 60's. I like the 70's one better. It has more bite. Also the Mt. Vernon 7C's are really different. they have a shallower cup and I think tighter throat.
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