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What is this accessory ? solved : LefreQue tone bridge


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michael_bxl
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:17 am    Post subject: What is this accessory ? solved : LefreQue tone bridge Reply with quote

Hello !

What is this accessory you put on the receiver I have seen on Markus Stockhausen and Eric Vloeimans' trumpet ?





I think they have been recently using it. And both are using Van Laar trumpet.

Thank you
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a lefreque tone bridge.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1465219
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be incorrect, but I think those are more popular in Europe than here....not that that’s especially relevant.😐

Brad
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michael_bxl
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you !
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Bert-Jan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can read a lefreQue product review by column editor Brittany Hendricks in the June 2020 issue of ITG journal
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.... evidence that trumpet players will buy anything?
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
.... evidence that trumpet players will buy anything?


I think this is the marketing concept (developed by Professor Irwin Corey) behind all trumpet gadgets:

"We all know that protocol takes precedence over procedures. This parliamentary point of order based on the state of inertia of developing a centrifugal force issued as a catalyst rather than as a catalytic agent, and hastens a change reaction and remains an indigenous brier to its inception. This is a focal point used as a tangent so the bile is excreted through the pancreas."
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tested them and did not buy them On my bass trumpet they seem to improve the attacks slightly and the sales guy (...) said the sound out front was much better. In spite of this I think a proper adjustment of the horn by my instrument maker will do the same thing and the idea of always needing to mount these plates with the rubber band was slightly annoying to me. I think the AR Resonance solution of an actual screw-in mouthpiece to efficiently transport the vibrations into the instrument is better but I never tested this.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the thread that LittleRusty linked:

Quote:
The theory behind the LeFreque is that a joint in a wind instrument, like where the mouthpiece meets the receiver, affects the transmission of the fundamental tone and the higher overtones differently. They travel across the joint at different speeds, so that the higher frequency overtones slow down and rise in pitch slightly. The instrument is slightly out of tune with itself, even just playing one note. The LeFreque acts as a sound bridge that enables the fundamental and overtones to travel at the same speed and stay in tune with themselves.

This makes the instrument sound better because the fundamental and overtone frequencies are better aligned. It also makes it easier to play in tune across the range of the instrument and with others in an ensemble because the center of intonation for each pitch on the instrument is more clearly defined.


If the above is true (emphasis on if), then I cannot see how it could work properly on a trumpet. Even if no valves are pressed, there are at least 2 other joints in the tuning slide that would mess up whatever the freque fixes at the mouthpiece. And then there’s soldering joints, potentially different material types in other parts of the horn, and the valve block...not to mention that Vloeimans is sponsored by leFreque...

EDIT: as it turns out, the part about Eric being paid isn't true, see posts below


Last edited by deleted_user_687c31b on Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Trompetolero
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

European guy here.
It does definitely affect the instrument‘s playing characteristics. My Scherzer piccolo got much easier to play when I put it on. Also my Weimann rotary trumpets seem to project even more and small differences in how notes speak are gone.
BUT i don‘t feel as much of a difference on piston horns. Don‘t know why. My Mount Vernon Bb seems to be immune to it.
Definitely worth trying, though. I laughed at them myself and so did my colleagues who got them later , too.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like Caleb Hudson has one on his trumpet in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmNUi5dWTcY
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Bert-Jan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone interested can check this out. Hope you enjoy it.

https://youtu.be/rtIIG-Bh138[/youtube]
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think their main effect is akin to that of a buzzing unsoldered brace or rim wire. If your sound is missing on that "sizzle", there you go. Note the rather weak coupling between the metal gadget, leadpipe and mouthpiece.

I know about buzzing braces because one new Getzen cornet that I tried had a brace on the first slide gone unsoldered and the slide was visibly! swinging - you could see the physical oscillation. That horn played like a dream.
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Voltrane
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can couple your horn and your mouthpiece with any metal piece correctly sized.
So what is specific to lefreque ?
Just curious.
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Bert-Jan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
From the thread that LittleRusty linked:

Quote:
The theory behind the LeFreque is that a joint in a wind instrument, like where the mouthpiece meets the receiver, affects the transmission of the fundamental tone and the higher overtones differently. They travel across the joint at different speeds, so that the higher frequency overtones slow down and rise in pitch slightly. The instrument is slightly out of tune with itself, even just playing one note. The LeFreque acts as a sound bridge that enables the fundamental and overtones to travel at the same speed and stay in tune with themselves.

This makes the instrument sound better because the fundamental and overtone frequencies are better aligned. It also makes it easier to play in tune across the range of the instrument and with others in an ensemble because the center of intonation for each pitch on the instrument is more clearly defined.


If the above is true (emphasis on if), then I cannot see how it could work properly on a trumpet. Even if no valves are pressed, there are at least 2 other joints in the tuning slide that would mess up whatever the freque fixes at the mouthpiece. And then there’s soldering joints, potentially different material types in other parts of the horn, and the valve block...not to mention that Vloeimans is sponsored by leFreque...


First: LefreQue does not not pay Eric to play with lefreQue. He bought the device because it contributes to his sound and that is why he always plays with the bridge on. Second: The energy of soundwaves propagating from the mouthpiece to the receiver are the highest at the MP/receiver joint and fade in the rest of the instrument. That is why this first connection is of most influence. Furthermore, problems with sound transmission and reflection from tube to tube arise most in rigid (clamping)connections . The tuning slide is a loose connection (it "slides"). The same applies to (for example) a trombone slide. This is also the reason why lefreQue is attached with an elastic band. It enables the inner plate to vibrate as free as possible. Do we always need to know and proof how things exactly work? Many people do not understand how an engine works but they can still drive a car..

This post is aimed at giving information. The only thing I want to say to all windplayers is: just give it a try and be surprised.

Recent studies proof that the resonance of the body of brass instruments is of significant influence to their sound output (despite tons of earlier scientific research showing the contribution of the body is insignificant). The lefreQue sound bridge creates a flexible connection over the rigid (airtight) mouthpiece/receiver joint, thus influencing sound transmission and reflection in te body at that point. Any energy travels the path of least resistance. Plain physics. Nothing voodoo about that.

Every trumpetplayer knows that the vibrations of the mouthpiece are of influence to the sound. Why would one otherwise choose a lighter or heavier MP? Some people even go as far as to suggest that a lefreQue only ads mass. But if that were true why would an ultra light Carbon/Fiber tutorial lefreQue work then?

How can you test this? Ask any two players to play a simple unison scale (without vibrato) with, without and with the soundbridge on. Blindfold them if you like and judge (also blind) when they are best in tune. Do the same and have one of the two playing in octaves and judge again. If you are alone then play a chromatic scale and pay attention to the evenness of tone production. With the bridge on, the chromatic scale will be more even and stable. Choose a lefreQue that matches at least the quality of your horn/mouthpiece: silverplated horn: silverplated or silver lefreQue. Good luck.

Any questions? please send me a personal message
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDACTED: Bert-Jan explained the nature of the sponsorship agreement with Eric Vloeimans and it seems that I was wrong claiming that Eric got paid by LeFreque.

Bert-Jan wrote:
Do we always need to know and proof how things exactly work? Many people do not understand how an engine works but they can still drive a car..

The difference is that with a car, it's obviously that the engine has an effect. I'm not yet convinced that LeFreque does. To rule out that it's not just a placebo effect, I'd like to know how it's supposed to work. If you had a car with a chicken instead of an engine in it, I'd be skeptical too as to how the car is supposed to drive. Give me a good explanation and I might take the chicken for a test run instead of dismissing it straight away. That's the reason why I'm asking questions. I shouldn't have to trust you blindly, the burden is on you to be convincing enough for me to buy it.


Last edited by deleted_user_687c31b on Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
Eric Vloeimans is a great guy and better trumpet player than I'll ever be, so even though he's paid by LeFreque, I'd be willing to trust his claim that LeFreque works.

So you trust his claim that it works?
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
hibidogrulez wrote:
Eric Vloeimans is a great guy and better trumpet player than I'll ever be, so even though he's paid by LeFreque, I'd be willing to trust his claim that LeFreque works.

So you trust his claim that it works?

By itself not enough to just go out and buy a LeFreque without trying it first, no. But enough to at least entertain the notion that LeFreque may actually do something, instead of completely dismissing it.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
Bert-Jan wrote:
First: LefreQue does not not pay Eric to play with lefreQue. He bought the device

His own personal website suggests that they do.

Quote from his website:
www.ericvloeimans.nl wrote:

Binnenkort verschijnt hier de tekst over mijn sponsor Lefreque Soundsystems

which translated to English reads: "Soon a text will appear here about my sponsor Lefreque Soundsystems".

A sponsor is someone who supplies someone with money or free stuff. So either you are wrong, or his website is. ...

-------------------------------------------
Being a 'sponsor' does not mean that Loeimans is using the Lefreque device BECAUSE of the sponsorship.

And it does not imply that the device was given to Loeimans by Lefreque.
Perhaps Lefreque did provide the device to Loeimans for testing, and because Loeimans is willing to endorse it, Lefreque is providing sponsorship to support Loeimans' website.
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Bert-Jan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
hibidogrulez wrote:
Bert-Jan wrote:
First: LefreQue does not not pay Eric to play with lefreQue. He bought the device

His own personal website suggests that they do.

Quote from his website:
www.ericvloeimans.nl wrote:

Binnenkort verschijnt hier de tekst over mijn sponsor Lefreque Soundsystems

which translated to English reads: "Soon a text will appear here about my sponsor Lefreque Soundsystems".

A sponsor is someone who supplies someone with money or free stuff. So either you are wrong, or his website is. ...

-------------------------------------------
Being a 'sponsor' does not mean that Loeimans is using the Lefreque device BECAUSE of the sponsorship.

And it does not imply that the device was given to Loeimans by Lefreque.
Perhaps Lefreque did provide the device to Loeimans for testing, and because Loeimans is willing to endorse it, Lefreque is providing sponsorship to support Loeimans' website.


Thank you. I contacted Eric personally today and he will adjust the wording on his web site. Eric bought his lefreQue. We supported his educational programme by providing free plastic lefreQues for his students to try.
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Last edited by Bert-Jan on Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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