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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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 Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | Finn, we’re probably the opposite ends of “sound taste” ... I’d take trombone over euphonium, for you it seems to be the opposite. But then I’d also take trumpet over flugel and I would guess you’d pick the other way round. Nothing wrong with that.
I do agree that I like trombone quartets better than trumpet quartets. |
I'd put cornet > trumpet, although, of course, it's very dependent on circumstances. I like flugel, but it's gone a little too far to that side, so I'd probably take trumpet over flugel. Again, it depends on for what. Cornet and flugel aren't super useful in orchestral music, which I like, so there you go.
Similarly, Euph isn't really a thing outside of concert and brass bands and some chamber stuff. Still, I think it's got a nice sound.
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arthurtwoshedsjackson
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Joined: 20 Aug 2020
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | | Delano, of course it is necessary to develop transposing skills ... it makes a difference if you read treble clef in Bb, which we all do most of the time, treble clef in C, or bass clef in C. The latter is what I’m learning right now and although it is not difficult, it need some practice to get fluent. |
A bass clef trombone, euphonium and tuba player at heart, I had to give them up due to physical limitations and have spent the past year becoming proficient at reading treble clef to play trumpet as well as slide positions to play soprano trombone. What’s strange is that I still think of the notes in my head in C while playing long tones, lip slur and other exercises from memory on Bb horns, but I can no longer execute bass clef slide positions/fingerings reliably after using them for 45+ years. Brains are weird.
I’ll take the sound of a contrabass tuba over any other brass instrument.
Last edited by arthurtwoshedsjackson on Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:23 am; edited 9 times in total |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | Delano, of course it is necessary to develop transposing skills ... it makes a difference if you read treble clef in Bb, which we all do most of the time, treble clef in C, or bass clef in C. The latter is what I’m learning right now and although it is not difficult, it need some practice to get fluent.
Cheidens tuba player son is reading the same notes but plays them an octave below bass trumpet or baritone. |
There is a treble clef and a bass clef. In both a written C is a C. There is no treble clef in Bflat and a treble clef in C nor reading it that way. The only problem is that the trumpet, cornet and flügelhorn are transposing instruments but a written C in treble clef is still a C on a Bflat trumpet though it sounds as a Bflat.
Your system of reading is sub-efficient, what are you going to do when playing a trumpet in D, Eflat or G? Reading the treble clef in D, Eflat and G? And on a C trumpet? Transposing everything a step up?
IMO not the way to go. I know lots of trumpet players (including myself) who also play the piano. Do you believe they are constantly transposing both the treble and the bass clef for that instrument?
What you are doing on Bflat trumpet is that you consider the written C as a Bflat but it isn't, it's just a C though it sounds as a Bflat on this transposing instrument. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: |
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I've actually had to play trumpet (Bb part) and keyboards (C part) simultaneously. Now that messes with your head. Particularly for a musical where there's too much music to memorize.
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arthurtwoshedsjackson
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Joined: 20 Aug 2020
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Has anyone owned or played a 3 (or 4) rotary valve trombone that they’ve liked? |
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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: |
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@Delano, I KNOW what I am doing, no reason to explain basics here ... what I mean (and you seem to ignore) is that trumpet music is generally NOT in concert pitch (at least where I live and play) while low brass music is in bass clef in concert pitch.
As a result (having played from music transposed for Bb instruments for 40 years) I now teach myself to read concert pitch and that takes some time for someone who has a 150% day job.
@cheiden, yes I hear you. That’s exactly what is going on. In the orchestra overall we talk concert pitch and within the trumpet section we sometimes talk concert pitch and sometimes not. In the big band we talk Bb.
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arthurtwoshedsjackson
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| When you later branch out into playing tuba in bass clef (non-transposing), you’ll get to learn different sets of fingerings for horns at different fundamental pitches - BB, Eb, F etc. I could never keep more than two at a time in playing shape. BB and one other. |
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Brassnose
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Exactly. Bb and C will do for me at the moment. Although - there is an awful lot of interesting Eb alto trumpets on the used market right now 
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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arthurtwoshedsjackson
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | | Exactly. Bb and C will do for me at the moment. Although - there is an awful lot of interesting Eb alto trumpets on the used market right now |
Have any links to share? |
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Brassnose
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Shawnino
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose,
Any experience on how those play? Particularly vs a Brass-band style Eb Tenorhorn?
I have one of those (Besson, laid out like smurf-sized 3-valve tuba...) and in my hands the intonation is pretty spotty and overall the tone is a bit harsh. Much of that is on me -- there's nothing harsh about Sheona White's sound -- but if I could start from a more mellow place with more solid intonation, my listeners might appreciate it. |
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Brassnose
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, I have never played a Eb bass trumpet but would love to. Imagine a trumpet group with Eb, Bb, Eb bass, and Bb bass. Based on my experience on Bb bass trumpets the rotaries generally play broader and more mellow. They are/were not laid out for marching and hence their bells are much wider. Not suitable for field bands and fanfares, though, I guess. Might be nice for smaller concert venues.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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