Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 am Post subject:
Richard III: Ha! Right, if it's too gnarly, then I'm sure someone else will want to take a crack at it.
But really, the strategy for sightreading solo changes in a chart is exactly the same for sightreading the through-composed sections of the chart. You want to look through for well-known patterns that you can breeze through, identify any really hairy/tricky parts that need a closer look, and then put together a rough "mental map" of the chart so you don't get caught with your pants down.
My strategy for blowing 32 bars over a chart I'd never seen before would be as follows:
- First, ask the obvious questions. Do I know this tune already? Is it a standard that I already know or a well-known form like blues or rhythm changes? Is it a contrafact of a well-known tune? Do I know this tune in a different key?
- If you don't already know the tune, and it's not a contrafact of anything you know, then you have to start breaking it up piece by piece. Look for the form of the tune: is it AABA? Is it ABAC? Is it ABCD? Any repeated sections will make your life easier.
- Look for well-known "chord progressions" or "chord blocks" that you know how to blow over from other tunes. These could include, but are certainly not limited to: ii-V7-1 / iib5-V7b9-i (major or minor), I-VI7-ii-V7 (aka turnarounds), ii-bii7#11-I (tritone substitution on the 7th chord), bVII7-I (backdoor seventh chord). It could also include any modal sections (like if it hangs out in D minor for a long time, or just switches between the minor and the associated Maj7#11 chord, like F#-7 and GMaj7#11). It could also include any recognizable patterns, like a string of chromatically descending minor or dominant chords.
- What you are trying to do in the step above is turn what looks at first glance to be 32 individual bars, with nothing to do with each other, into "chunks" or "blocks" of 2-8 chords that you can easily digest and over which you already know ready-made jazz vocabulary, some go-to phrases, "target" notes, or some sort of general plan to deal with. (E.g. on a "backdoor" seventh I like using a whole-tone scale or augmented triad from the b7 up to the #11, which sounds super nice resolving to the IMaj7.)
- If, after that, there are any sections of the changes that are still truly a mystery, then analyze them in more detail. Are there any funky alterations that deserve your attention? You'll likely find, 9 times out of 10, that most charts don't really have anything all THAT outlandish in them, and if they do, they're pretty easy to figure out.
- Finally, you want to make a mental road map with a general plan. Do you know which tune this is a mental map for?
"This tune is AABA format. The A section is a minor 2-5-1 in G and then a minor 2-5 that resolves to the major D, which is what is giving this section harmonic interest, so I'll be super intent on emphasizing the 3rd, 6th, 7th, and 9th of the major D which will make it sound really sweet. The B section is a major 2-5-1 in C which I can just blow something hip over. Then it goes to two bars each of chromatically descending 7th chords with some funky alterations on them, Bb7 and A7. I don't feel like figuring out precisely what the alterations are, so I'll just use tritone substitutions there, playing E7#11 and Eb7#11 jazz language, which will fit whatever the pianist decides to throw at me. Then back to the A section."
- Finally, you asked specifically about alterations on chords. There are two types of alterations: those that you must absolutely play as written, and those you can safely ignore. Experience will tell you which is which. With big band charts, you will often have backgrounds behind your solos and if you don't play the right alterations they can really mess you up, so you have to be careful here! You should have some stock jazz language ready to go for any of these altered chord situations, at least one or two things, so you're never caught with your pants down on stage.
- The above strategy will get you through 95% of anything anyone will ever throw at you unexpectedly, I'd say. With a little practice, you can do the above in just a few seconds and you're ready for the downbeat! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:00 pm Post subject:
One thing I would add to what’s already been posted is to listen carefully to everything that happens before your moment to blow. Often some of the “mysteries” in the changes will be revealed ahead of time.
I’ve been in this exact situation many times and have learned to let my ears take precedence over my eyes. The chords may have looked unsolvable but your ears might disclose their inherent simplicity.
Many arrangers find it necessary to delineate every alteration in every chord, and sometimes all the improviser needs to know is that it’s a dominant chord. In writing it they might sus and plus you to death, but in listening it’s liable to not be so damn complicated.
Just based on my own experience. Your mileage may vary.
By the way, there is a Terry Vosbein big band recording on YouTube of The Real Princess, and while the tune was being counted off the part was passed to me. It was more than 32 bars.
Certainly not a perfect solo, but my ears did most of the work.
Oh, and this was near the end of an excruciating 2+ hour concert, which is why the other guy passed me his part. He didn't think he had enough left to make it through that long solo, which was supposed to be in Harmon mute, but I elected to play it open and barely made it through at that! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1050 Location: Salisbury, MD
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:45 am Post subject:
As Kenny Rogers taught us - "you gotta know when to hold 'em and you gotta know when to fold 'em". Turkle and Rich provided great information based on their abilities. I'm not THAT guy who can get away with what they can.
Funny anecdote, for a couple of decades, I helped support a local college band at a small campus. The director is a good friend of mine. To "develop" his students, he would often just point to somebody during a performance to take the next solo. I told him not to do that to me. He thought I was joking. I told him I was not and that would actually be a condition of my involvement. He respected that and we never had an issue. While I can improvise well enough to manage through most pit orchestra requirements, I simply don't like to improvise. I decline gigs that would put me in an improv situation that I don't want to be in. There are SO many things about trumpet that I want to continue to study and learn, but I just don't have interest in this area.
Did I just get kicked out of the Jazz/Commercial forum? Lol. _________________ Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:52 am Post subject:
Perfect tumpet section:
a guy who can play high G and swing, too.
a guy who can solo over anything
a guy who declines solos but knows a lot of jokes
a guy who is like none of the above but always reaches for the check _________________ Jim Hatfield
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Solo Challenge
jhatpro wrote:
Let's say you're playing with a big band and you open a new chart and see that half-way through you have a 32-bar solo with lots of altered chords.
What's your strategy?
Grab my smart phone, plug in one ear bud, look for a Youtube of another band doing the song, zip forward to the solo and do what that guy does. Every time the band gets to that part, hit play on the phone and follow along. Afterwards, take congratulations for doing such a great version. _________________ Richard
One thing I would add to what’s already been posted is to listen carefully to everything that happens before your moment to blow. Often some of the “mysteries” in the changes will be revealed ahead of time.
Although I have no illusions I'm even half as qualified to post as some of the others here, the above is my solution also. When in doubt what to do, I use the melody as a basis for a solo. If there's a youtube version, even if it's a different arrangement, then that'll too help me prepare for the eventual solo.
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:46 am Post subject:
BeboppinFool wrote:
One thing I would add to what’s already been posted is to listen carefully to everything that happens before your moment to blow. Often some of the “mysteries” in the changes will be revealed ahead of time.
I’ve been in this exact situation many times and have learned to let my ears take precedence over my eyes. The chords may have looked unsolvable but your ears might disclose their inherent simplicity.
Many arrangers find it necessary to delineate every alteration in every chord, and sometimes all the improviser needs to know is that it’s a dominant chord. In writing it they might sus and plus you to death, but in listening it’s liable to not be so damn complicated.
Loved your playing in that! Caught a few fun quotes in there as well...
I was thinking that I should have added your insight to my post, so I'm glad you got there first. Listening to the song as it goes by is usually enough to get a general "road map" together before your solo. Surely we all have that experience at jam sessions where a singer calls a tune in an awkward key, or when someone calls a tune you sort of know by ear but have never seen a chart? Experienced ears can pick up enough of the general shape of the tune that you really don't even need the chords at all, as long as it's not something totally wacky. (I don't think anyone here picked up Dolphin Dance by ear the first time they heard it.)
Totally agree that for the most part you don't need to pay attention to the written alterations when it's just you playing, but sometimes when the band is playing backgrounds behind you you may need to play the actual alterations as written to avoid some rather hideous clashing. It happens to the best of us!
Also shout out to poster hibidogrulez, those are indeed the keys to the kingdom: when in doubt use the melody as your guide and you really can't go wrong. Or at least are much less likely to embarrass yourself! Ha... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject:
Turkle wrote:
Also shout out to poster hibidogrulez, those are indeed the keys to the kingdom: when in doubt use the melody as your guide and you really can't go wrong. Or at least are much less likely to embarrass yourself! Ha...
In my recorded example (above), I was sightreading my part which didn’t contain the melody. Seems like it’s a 128-bar form or something close to that, and it was mostly the trombones who played the melody, a melody written by Terry and premiered on that concert. There was no way for me to know the entire melody in advance and stay close to it, I’m afraid. I’m not Mozart, after all.
Now, I was vaguely aware that this was being recorded, but if I had known that it was going to become a CD I suspect my self-consciousness might’ve gotten the best of me. However, I was able to concentrate and stay in the moment, mostly hanging on for dear life hoping that my chops would hold up for the entire solo.
If you listen to the rest of the tune you get an idea of how demanding the entire concert was. Terry wrote really hard and high trumpet parts (he’s a huge Stan Kenton fan) and one consideration when playing an extended solo like this is to pace what endurance you may have left and not throw it all away during the solo since you’ll still be needing plenty of chops to get through the rest of the tune and the rest of the gig.
It’s not often that I get to have a recording of so many challenges being met all at once, so this is (for little ol’ me) quite an achievement based on the numerous “adverse” conditions at the time. _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz
Certainly not a perfect solo, but my ears did most of the work.
Oh, and this was near the end of an excruciating 2+ hour concert, which is why the other guy passed me his part. He didn't think he had enough left to make it through that long solo, which was supposed to be in Harmon mute, but I elected to play it open and barely made it through at that!
Thoroughly enjoyable! Nicely done. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:02 pm Post subject:
This sort of thing would happen to me every summer in our pizza/beer gig on a lake in N MN. The book covers stuff from the 1920s to a rare trip into the early 60s- lots of unfamiliar tunes and generally most of them sound about like the theme for The 3 Stooges or for the very early Looney Toons/Steamboat Willy-type backgrounds.
When I first started with this well-established band I played 2nd and the lead guy would never take an improv solo. If written out he'd do it, otherwise he'd "ask" me to play it, almost always after the tune had started. Usually no chords or anything in my part but so long as I knew the tune it was usuallly pretty simple for someone who can play by ear. Just have to make sure we'll still be playing in the same key at the solo... (I think the standard version of Night Shift modulates at the trumpet solo. Always good to know ahead of time.)
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