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underdog
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Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 392
Location: Nashville, TN
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: compression |
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edit
Last edited by underdog on Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Compression is essential to clean playing both classically and commercially. |
Are you referring to air pressure? If so then, Yes, air pressure is required for ALL playing. |
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underdog
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Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 392
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: compression |
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edit
Last edited by underdog on Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't appear you define compression as air pressure in this case then. But yet some imagery of blowing effort or body "feeling" that you engage in.
| Quote: | | I go into it in quite a bit of depth within the first 3 videos of the series. |
What series? |
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Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | It doesn't appear you define compression as air pressure in this case then. But yet some imagery of blowing effort or body "feeling" that you engage in.
| Quote: | | I go into it in quite a bit of depth within the first 3 videos of the series. |
What series? |
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=155543&highlight=
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Pete
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1739
Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Nice,
Now you have insulted Steve Patrick. The deletion of his posts is not surrendering to the bully tactics, it is to be more mature and classy than you.
Pete |
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theslawdawg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 843
Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Edited.
_________________
My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs
Last edited by theslawdawg on Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now you have insulted Steve Patrick. |
Right. How exactly did I insult Steve Patrick?
He began the thread with a single word, "compression". Then attached a nice video of himself playing a short passage. I was expecting a video that actually discussed it.
I asked if by "compression" was he referring to air pressure. Please explain to me how that is bullying, uncivil, or not appropriate.
It seems there are any number number of definitions for "compression" among trumpet players, obviously he was referring to a "feeling" or some description of an action. I certainly don't deny what he is attempting to describe.
| Quote: | | it is to be more mature and classy than you |
Now see, that is a personal attack. You have just done exactly what you accused me of. |
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Pete
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1739
Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | Quote: | | Now you have insulted Steve Patrick. |
Right. How exactly did I insult Steve Patrick?
He began the thread with a single word, "compression". Then attached a nice video of himself playing a short passage. I was expecting a video that actually discussed it.
I asked if by "compression" was he referring to air pressure. Please explain to me how that is bullying, uncivil, or not appropriate.
It seems there are any number number of definitions for "compression" among trumpet players, obviously he was referring to a "feeling" or some description of an action. I certainly don't deny what he is attempting to describe.
| Quote: | | it is to be more mature and classy than you |
Now see, that is a personal attack. You have just done exactly what you accused me of. |
Maybe you should ask him. And maybe you might take some hints as to
your personal approach. And I stand by my statements. It supposed to be a forum, and not for just one person. I would have liked to read more of his information. I will go to his website. Your soapbox must be getting worn out.
Pete |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Maybe you should ask him |
Uhmm..
I did. And then you accused me of being a bully for doing so. |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:51 am Post subject: |
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My understanding of what Steve Patrick meant by 'compression' is the feeling in the upper chest area after taking a full breath AND then keeping the air 'in' after relaxing torso muscle inhalation effort (by not allowing air to escape from the mouth or nose).
That feeling for me, is that the chest tissue has been somewhat stretched similar to a balloon, and the air inside the lungs is being 'compressed' (which would lead to greater air pressure inside the lungs.
Due to the 'stretched tissue' and air pressure difference, when air is allowed to escape thru a playing embouchure into the trumpet, it can be played briefly without any forced 'blowing'. Of course additional air flow can be produced by active blowing.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Steve A
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1808
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: |
Maybe you should ask him. And maybe you might take some hints as to
your personal approach. And I stand by my statements. It supposed to be a forum, and not for just one person. I would have liked to read more of his information. I will go to his website. Your soapbox must be getting worn out.
Pete |
I didn't see Steve Patrick's posts before he (unfortunately) removed them, so I'm not responding to what he wrote, but I can't see what you feel was insulting or confrontational about kalijah's post, unless it's simply that it has some degree of an implied (?) disagreement.
Shouldn't we be able to respectfully and constructively disagree on forums? Maybe underdog wasn't interested in discussing the physics of playing, and wanted to approach things from a visualization angle, in which case, if he said so, I'm pretty sure kalijah would had no issue with it.
I get that we collectively want people who are highly accomplished and who we look up to to post here, and that there's an impulse to avoid disagreeing with them in order to encourage them to do that, but accomplished players are collectively all over the map on their stances on different playing issues, many of which starkly contradict each other. (And, awesome though their trumpet playing may be, there are too many incompatible views for them all to be right.)
I think kalijah's basic view (at least as I understand it) - that if people want to frame their arguments from a scientific standpoint, they should be correct in what they say, and if they're just describing a feeling, they should say so - is pretty reasonable and hard to credibly argue with. |
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TrpPro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1471
Location: Riverview, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Well said |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I couldn't have explained it better than Steve A.
It's simply a discussion, and "feelings " and " sensation" are worth discussing.
As are technical terms and topics. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Steve A wrote: | | I didn't see Steve Patrick's posts before he (unfortunately) removed them,... |
I'm seeing posts removed from this thread but I think many or all links shared are still in this other thread.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=155543&highlight=
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| It appears to me that he is promoting a "for fee" lessons site . |
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deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: |
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It may have something to do with kalijah's recent posting streak and the way he tends to write things, rather than the topics he adresses. For example:
| kalijah wrote: | | Are you referring to air pressure? If so then, Yes, air pressure is required for ALL playing. |
...where specifically the second sentence can be quite condescending, especially to an accomplished professional player.
If it had simply read "Are you referring to air pressure? If so then yes, I fully agree with you" it'd be a lot less confrontational.
Even if the intent is good, the recent heated threads will have made people weary to engage into discussions about compression simply for the fact they'll likely be harassed about every minor detail they get wrong, rather than have an actual conversation about the validity of their approach as a whole. |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: |
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So asking for an clarification on EXACTLY what one means by "compression" is "harassment"?
If we agree on the term then we can have a conversation. If someone defines "compression" or any other term in a way that only THEY know and understand, then communication is impossible.
There is SO much of this in the language of "things trumpet players say", popular buzzwords of no agreed-upon definition. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | So asking for an clarification on EXACTLY what one means by "compression" is "harassment"? |
No, telling a professional player "air pressure is required for ALL playing" as if they don't know any better is.
Mind you, I don't neccesarily disagree with the content of your posts. It's just the way you phrase things that can rub people the wrong way. |
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