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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: ABC of 3 Great Horns Just for Fun! |
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I recently acquired a Yamaha YTR 8335 RGS and have been playing it everyday since I got it back from a PVA at Osmun. After almost 2 weeks, I think the "Honeymoon" excitement of a great, different horn has normalized.
That said, I decided to do a very informal ABC comparison for my practice session today including my trusted Benge 5x, Bach NY7, and Yamaha YTR8335 RGS. I covered the same material including warmup and warm-down on all three horns using the same mouthpiece for all 3.
L to R Benge, Bach, Yamaha
A) Benge 5X (ML). I know this horn very well having bought it new in 1971. It is stock and original in everyway except for a Valve job in 2018 by Jim Becker at Osmun (this improved the usual Benge intonation to a degree and gave this horn a new life, lifetime) and the addition of a Large Bore Benge Main Tuning Slide (this opened the blow up substantially). Of the 3, this is by far the lightest at 35.75 oz., response is awesome and slots are very slippery, especially above the staff! On my side of the bell, it had the least core of the 3, but past experience says that projection is pretty spectacular. I used this horn primarily for Big Band, R&B, Latin and classic Rock'n Roll Horn Bands for years. With mouthpiece considerations, I have used it in Brass Ensemble, Brass Quintet, and Chamber Orchestra. If this was the only Bb horn I had (and it was for a very long time), I could make it work in mostly any situation.
B) Bach New York 7* (L). I bought this horn new in 2016 and it has been my performance horn most often since. It is a stock NY7 in every way. This horn weighs in at 37.625 oz. has very good response and slots well, but not too tight in a very desirable way, at least for me. On my side of the bell, I get the most feedback of the 3 (French Bead?) and the core and color spectrum are very broad. Experience has led me to believe that this is the best all around of the 3. I have used it as a solo horn many times (this is a particular forte), Brass Quintet, Chamber and Symphony Orchestras. If this was the only horn I had, I would need to explore mouthpieces for any other than Classical situations, and the large bore works me a little harder endurance wise (I'm 70 years old and beginning to understand my limitations).
C) Yamaha YTR 8335 RGS. (ML) I've had this horn a little more than 2 months but in my possession for a little more half of that, so I know this horn the least. It is stock in everyway but with a Chem clean and PVA at Osmun a few weeks ago. The PVA has made this a great horn in my opinion. It weighs in the heaviest of the 3 at 38.375 oz. It feels substantial in the hand but the response is anything but tedious. The core is a reflection of the Gold Brass bell, very nice, but a little on the, for lack of a better word, darker side. Slots are predictably tight but that offers a lot of security. Of the 3, this one seems to be the most mouthpiece sensitive. I don't imagine that I would use this horn in many situations other than Classical, but it would fill that need extremely well. Other than supporting the weight, I could play this horn for hours, but I'm glad that it is not the only option I have!
In this limited exercise, I would be hard pressed to choose a favourite, but glad to have been blessed with all 3!
Have you ever done a comparison of your collection and verbalized it? I'm interested to hear!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:18 pm Post subject: ABC of three great horns just for fun |
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Thanks for the comparo. I had a Benge 5x serial number 10xxx from new for 26 years. Still the stupidest thing I ever did selling it. I would agree with your assessment on sound, too. I felt like I could fill any hall or church I ever played in and that the horn was versatile enough to use in band, orchestra, solo or small group. Other Bach players that I would trade with in municipal band thought the sound was pretty rich too. Now, at 70 I would love trying one of the Getzen Eterna Deluxe trumpets. I can't do justice to the others on your list but they all would be great fun to play. I had extensive time on an Eterna cornet and a Severinsen trumpet way back in the day, so I love the fun you can have with a Getzen. Regards, Brian _________________ "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the review.
I love my Xeno 8335RGS and I agree with your opinion but as it is on the « dark side », I mainly use it in... Jazz combo! For classical I use my rotary Weimann as I do not have a « classical piston ».
You say the Xeno is mouthpiece sensitive, so what mouthpieces do you use for classical?
Thanks
Oh, by the way , I am 74 and I have understood my limitations a long time ago _________________ S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Voltrane wrote: |
You say the Xeno is mouthpiece sensitive, so what mouthpieces do you use for classical?
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I am still auditioning Reeves Mouthpieces for the 8335RGS and haven't settled on an ideal cup/throat/backbore combo yet. I am in the meantime, using a Reeves 41C692 bringing some brighter components into the mix. I have played Reeves 41 Rims and the previous designation Reeves 1 Rim since 1971 and am not likely to make a rim change at this late date. Reeves Mouthpieces are a little on the pricey side, so trying not to make any missteps in selection. No big hurry! I am still learning the RGS (the recent PVA has revealed a new dimension) and with no group rehearsals and performances lately, the jury is still out.
Best wishes,
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Ok, thanks and if (or when) you find the Graal, please post!
Regards _________________ S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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Nos Mo King Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 438 Location: Cheyenne WY
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Terrific review! I have owned the 3x+ and, looking back, wish I hadn't sold it to finance what was to be the beginning of a trumpet safari. I enjoyed it, and it served me well for all venues at the time.
I am planning a trip to Thompson music sometime this year, and hope to try a NY Bach 7 (and 7*). Reading your review makes me envious I haven't tried it sooner. I know shofarguy has recommended this horn as well..or maybe it was the 7/7??
Most of my playing is on the 9335 vs (Vizutti) model...the main slide is interchangeable with a standard Xeno..Which surprised me to no end....But have also tried different slides, notably those from M/K drawing..these lighten up the tone and blow considerably. Need a bit more zip with less energy. The RGS would be interesting to try.
Leaning towards the smaller bores too, due to wind issues the older I get.
Thanks for the post! _________________ Russ Chapman
______________________________ |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: ABC of three great horns just for fun |
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blbaumgarn wrote: | ... I had a Benge 5x serial number 10xxx from new for 26 years. Still the stupidest thing I ever did selling it...
... Now, at 70 I would love trying one of the Getzen Eterna Deluxe trumpets...
...I had extensive time on an Eterna cornet and a Severinsen trumpet way back in the day, so I love the fun you can have with a Getzen. |
Brian,
Decent looking Benge 5Xs show up in the Marketplace from time to time, so you might find a replacement. I lost my first trumpet (Dad purchase used in '59 for me), an early 50s LA Olds Mendez during Hurricane Betsy in 1965 a day or two before my 14th birthday. I have thought about replacing it many times over the years, just haven't found "the one" as of yet. I played a US Army Band issued Getzen Severinsen for a few years during the early 70s and liked it a lot, maybe the best valves of any horn I've ever played!
Hoping you find a really great replacement no matter the brand!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Nos Mo King wrote: | Terrific review! I have owned the 3x+ and, looking back, wish I hadn't sold it to finance what was to be the beginning of a trumpet safari. I enjoyed it, and it served me well for all venues at the time.
I am planning a trip to Thompson music sometime this year, and hope to try a NY Bach 7 (and 7*). Reading your review makes me envious I haven't tried it sooner. I know shofarguy has recommended this horn as well..or maybe it was the 7/7??
Most of my playing is on the 9335 vs (Vizutti) model...the main slide is interchangeable with a standard Xeno..Which surprised me to no end....But have also tried different slides, notably those from M/K drawing..these lighten up the tone and blow considerably. Need a bit more zip with less energy. The RGS would be interesting to try. |
Russ,
I tend to hold onto the horns that I really like and consider getting additional horns only if a "real need" arises. Money is never in great supply, so I temper my desires as much as possible, sometimes successfully!
Best wishes on your safari!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:06 am Post subject: Re: ABC of 3 Great Horns Just for Fun! |
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cbtj51 wrote: | Have you ever done a comparison of your collection and verbalized it? I'm interested to hear! | While verbosity is not one of my strengths, I'll try...
I've been having a LOT of fun with some recently acquired vintage horns- top to bottom:
1941 Olds Super
1940 French Besson Brevete
1942 Chicago Benge
[img][/img]
My Burbank Benge 5x has been the baseline for sound and feel comparisons
for quite some time. I've been doing much recording and find the minute, yet
obvious subtle differences fascinating. While I'm still experimenting with a
few backbore combinations to optimize the match of each horn, I find that
the feedback and unique sound of these is truly remarkable and special in
their own way. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:58 am Post subject: Re: ABC of 3 Great Horns Just for Fun! |
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Yamahaguy wrote: |
I've been having a LOT of fun with some recently acquired vintage horns- top to bottom:
1941 Olds Super
1940 French Besson Brevete
1942 Chicago Benge
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That looks like a great line-up! A colleague sold his incredible Olds Super Recording a few days before I ran across him in the grocery store. I would have figured out a way to get that one into my possession had I known. Not meant to be, I guess. Meanwhile, I am still looking for a decent LA Mendez to replace one that I lost in Hurricane Betsy long ago!
Thanks for responding! Those are GREAT horns!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Voltrane wrote: | Ok, thanks and if (or when) you find the Graal, please post!
Regards |
Voltrane,
The Reeves 41 rim has been my grail for decades! I ended up pairing the Xeno RGS with a Reeves 41B692 and after using it exclusively for many practices, rehearsals and performances since October, have committed to the relationship! I really like this setup a lot and find myself gravitating to the Xeno often because of it!!!
The Reeves 41C692 (great for most any requirement) or 41C2J (incredible for small rooms and/or vocal accompaniment) have been my favourites depending on the venue with my Bach NY7 for a good, long while.
I am experimenting with the newest Reeves offering just recently, a 41BOOM paired with the Benge. It is a variant of the Reeves Standard B cup with a Medium V cup, a Hybrid of sorts in throat and backbore as well, which brings a much brighter sound than the standard and I expect will get a lot of use with the Benge (old favourite pairing 41S695).
Wishing you a very Merry Christmas!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thans for the interesting reiew. Mike. You compared your Bach to the other horns. I wonder if you had a chance to play the Bach 190 Series, like the Anniversary Model or the Commercial Model? Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Mike. You compared your Bach to the other horns. I wonder if you had a chance to play the Bach 190 Series, like the Anniversary Model or the Commercial Model? Thanks. |
Kehaulani,
Thank you for asking! I compared the horns from my small collection more for fun than anything serious, never having done that before, but I did gain some insight that I hadn't considered previously.
I have not played the 190 Anniversary 37 or 43 models, not sure these were offered at the time I was in the market, but I had a "near" chance to audition the 190(?) Commercial Model; a new or near new example that a local music store sent to a Brass Ensemble rehearsal via a local teacher just before Covid. A local symphony chair spent a lot of time on it so it never made it to me before it was gone again. If I were to find myself in the market for another horn, I would seriously consider the 190s after some real play time.
Have you auditioned a NY7? If so, what are your impressions?
Merry Christmas,
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3637 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting comparison. I have a number of good trumpets, and my approach, given the isolation we are all enduring to one degree or another, is to play one only for a couple of months without much switching. It allows me to get into the instrument.
I've had many Benges and have played hundreds more because of my repair business. The Chicago ML I have now is one of the best I've ever played. It was a lengthy overhaul but the result was worth the time spent. There's something about the "dead" bell (no ring when struck) that has something to do with the response.
Enjoy your time playing!
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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cbtj51,
thanks for the review.
Merry christmas. _________________ S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I've only played the 190 series, 'Anniversary' and 'Commercial' models. Have never been a Bach guy (Severinson, Constellation, Benge, Committee) but really liked these "new" Bachs. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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