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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: Which Flugel to Upgrade a Yam 2310? |
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I'm basically a comeback player but at this stage of life no more gigs/dances/etc. Mostly for fun and/or community jazz & big band.
I sold my Conn V-1 a couple of years ago but kept my Yamaha 2310-S with a 3rd valve trigger (installed by Ann MacMillan at UNT). It's a pretty good horn especially with the trigger but I've got the itch. The flugel will see about 20% or less use than my trumpets.
After talking with ACB and from what I see and read, I feel it comes down to two flugels, an ACB Doubler or a Manchester Brass. I've considered the Yamaha 631 but that pushes my budget and I don't need any more horn than that.
For those of you that have some experience or knowledge with the ACB Dblr. &/or the Manchester Brass what do you think? |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Just bought a ACB and the buying experience could not have been better. Head and shoulders above any other I've had. I haven't been able to play the horn but it looks great. It's a gift for my son and he doesn't know he's getting it yet.
The Dillon flugel is the other one I considered. It's a bit less $ and I've heard good things about it too. I went with ACB because of the better info available including Trent's videos. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I've been considering this myself but I think I'm leaning toward a used Yamaha, Getzen, or Cuesnon. All around the same price but with more reliable history in numerous ways. All pretty well available on the used market. I know people seem to like the Doubler, Dillon, and Manchester Brass but I just can't trust how they'll fare longterm. _________________ Kevin |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Great but totally missing the mark on the price point. _________________ Kevin |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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kevin_soda wrote: |
Great but totally missing the mark on the price point. |
My bad. |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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No worries. Horn looks sweet! _________________ Kevin |
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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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No Kidding, If I were 20 years younger that's where I'd go. Christen Greko (at Edwards) has been involved, I'm not sure if he actually made them, with three of my friends' horns, 2 'bones, and yeah, I'd be right there. They do some incredible work.
Looking at the used Yammies, at least right now, it seems everyone is really proud of them. I'd really like to stay with a $1K max budget.
I'm not too concerned with resale.
Last edited by ECLtmpt2 on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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In Yammies, the 631G is a good choice, very solid horn. Don't know if you could find a Shew or LA in your price range. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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I got my Yamaha 731 used for less than a grand, but it was about a decade ago. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Fig Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 140
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I really think the student model Yamaha is going to be a better horn than the low price options you are thinking of. It's a good design, well made by Yamaha and with the tuning ability you are all set - though mine has remarkably good intonation. I've played one of the options you mention-the intonation was pretty quirky. You aren't really upgrading with those horns. You should just keep and enjoy the Yamaha, unless you can come up with $1200 or so at some point and get an upgraded Yamaha or Getzen. Anyway-just my opinion. I think the Yamaha 2310 flugelhorn is one of the last real bargains out there. |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:19 am Post subject: Scodwell USA "Euro" |
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I'd like to put a bid in for one of my remaining "Euro" model flugelhorns. It is intended to fit the needs of someone wanting a proper sounding flugel with wonderful intonation and it is new priced right. A quick look at the TH Marketplace under the flugel/cornet heading will fill you in on all the details.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I have had very good luck using an ACB Doubler flugelhorn with a rose brass bell and adding a replacement Yamaha 631 lead pipe for the stock pipe. I have a nice vintage YFL-631, but in a crowded pit, the ACB sees more use, as the bell is heavier and can withstand the little knocks better. It plays very well...
HTH
Ben |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:49 am Post subject: |
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benlewis wrote: | I have had very good luck using an ACB Doubler flugelhorn with a rose brass bell and adding a replacement Yamaha 631 lead pipe for the stock pipe. |
Thanks for the tip. After I give my son his ACB Doubler for his 18th birthday this weekend I'll find time to try it with the mouthpipe from my 731 and see if we like it better. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Shawnino Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Manchester Brass is ACB's Hoxon Gakki-made product (Carol). Doubt you could go wrong with that. I had a Carol fluegel and it as great. |
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austincustombrass Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Posts: 246 Location: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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benlewis wrote: | I have had very good luck using an ACB Doubler flugelhorn with a rose brass bell and adding a replacement Yamaha 631 lead pipe for the stock pipe. I have a nice vintage YFL-631, but in a crowded pit, the ACB sees more use, as the bell is heavier and can withstand the little knocks better. It plays very well...
HTH
Ben |
Ben,
Thanks so much for chiming in! That was probably our first or second generation doubler (pre-engraving or around that early engraved model) ones. Those are pretty different from our third gen ones which are true small French-style bore (.413). So it's doubtful the 631 pipe will fit the newer 3rd gen models.
The Manchester is absolutely a professional horn and I've used it on gigs where I didn't want to take my Adams (like a crowded pit). I have also done the same with the ACB with fine results but we don't term our own doubler as a pro horn but more akin to the early Couesnon models when they first entered the mass market in the 50's. A nice, reliable, lower-priced option.
As always people can call us at 816-410-0826 with any questions you might have!
Cheers,
Trent _________________ As of 1/1/2022 ACB will no longer post online here nor monitor TH.
It's a shame how far this forum has fallen. If you need us call 816-410-0826 or email.
Cool Links here:
https://linktr.ee/austincustombrass |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Trent,
Yes; I've had it for a while. I'm sorry if I put out any bad information. The Yamaha pipe certainly worked a treat for me. I never want to steer anyone wrong....
Molto dispiace!!!
Ben |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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austincustombrass wrote: | ...So it's doubtful the 631 pipe will fit the newer 3rd gen models. |
Good to know. If I try I won't try too hard. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I was ready to go for the Manchester, Josh at ACB was great to work with. However, a Yam 631G within budget fell into my lap.
I do like my 2310, esp. with the trigger, and I decided it will stay as a beater. |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Fig wrote: | I really think the student model Yamaha is going to be a better horn than the low price options you are thinking of. |
I’ll second this. One of my former profs got one as a gift, he loved it, and never saw a reason to upgrade from it. |
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