Stupid question...but....

[trpt2honk]

Can you literally FEEL the resistance between valves? If you play 2nd space A with 1,2 and then with 3, can you feel the difference between the two fingerings? What about the low a, two leger lines below the staff? Can you tell the difference between those two fingerings?

Can you FEEL the gurgling resistance of the water in the horn that tells you to use the spit valve? Or do you just hear it?


Yes, I’m overthinking it....so sue me! LOL


Mike
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Mike Berry
Columbia, SC
trpt2honk@gmail.com

[cgaiii]

Yes, and that is one reason alternate fingerings are useful in addition to fingering convenience. The difference varies horn to horn, but it is always there. Sometimes it is not so much resistance but sound. I have noticed that one of my trumpets sounds better with the third valve for the A above the staff in certain pieces, particularly if I am leaping into that A. Some me, some horn involved.
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[kehaulani]

Yes, but to what end? To me it's the forest or the trees. Unless you're reaching for something specifically caused by the difference, timbre/resistance etc. between valves, I would go for uniformity of sound and let the end result be your goal, not concentrating on the minutiae.
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[JayKosta]

No, I cannot feel a resistance difference between the 12 and 3 valve usage.

But I have done DIY tinkering with the valve alignment so that all of the valve combos have very similar good sound and feel. It was surprising to me how just a little change to the alignment could make a noticeable difference in the sound and feel.

I mentioned some alignment things here -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1607110#1607110
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[kalijah]

[BraeGrimes]

Easy way to tell, G on the second line with open and then with 1 and 3. The frequency is the same, but the resistance changes. If you maintain the air velocity and volume of air, you should notice a difference.

In terms of the difference between 1+2 and 3, there should be a small (maybe even unnoticeable) change in resistance as the tubing is the same(ish) length. My thought are that I feel the difference when there's a waterkey on 3rd doing this, but it kind of depends on the waterkey (amado, traditional [type of cork and tension make a biggish difference too], saturn, joykey, etc.). Every time you make a chimney, the resistance is greater (this is why some sax players prefer instruments without a high F# key). So, IMO (not backed up by anything except how I feel), in order from least to most resistance:

- No waterkey
- Amado waterkey
- Saturn waterkey
- Traditional waterkey with synthetic/composite cork
- Traditional waterkey with rubber nipple cork
- Traditional waterkey with natural cork
- Joykey
- Traditional waterkey with neoprene/cork that's work or not sealing

Then we get into combinations with reversed (standard on most if not all horns not) and standard slides (MM-FF)! Reversed is far less resistant IMO, but the combination of what's on your horn (for example, very few reversed 2nd tuning slides out there, a number of horns don't have reversed 1st slides, etc.). It can do you're head in!

Personally, I just try to remember this mantra from my teacher:

"Just blow the [expletive] thing!"

[Billy B]

You're correct. It's a stupid question.
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[ebolton]

I'm not a very experienced or very good trumpet player, but I am a late career Mechanical Engineer with a lot of career experience in piping systems.

Any time flow changes direction, there is additional flow resistance. It's probably too slight to notice at the speed air goes through a trumpet. What feels like a massive blow to us is pretty minimal by industrial standards. A great set of lungs can generate a couple of PSI. A plastic syringe can generate 20.

Sound waves in the flow get disrupted by reflections as the air changes direction. Especially if the change is sudden. I think that accounts for most of why horns sound different than other horns, and probably accounts for almost all of the "feeling" difference. I don't doubt at all proficient players can notice this. Not being proficient, I can't argue this too well, though, at least yet.
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[blbaumgarn]

I think the actress Lauren Bacall said it best in the movie "To Have and to Have Not,". "You know how to whistle don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together and blow."
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[HERMOKIWI]

My father used to say, "There are no stupid questions. There are only stupid answers." He was correct. The search for knowledge is never stupid.

I notice a tiny bit of difference between the 1-2 combination and using just 3. It's not enough of a difference to matter to me. What does matter to me is the intonation difference.

As for feeling the resistance of gurgling water in addition to hearing it, at the level the water is gurgling I can definitely feel the additional resistance.
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HERMOKIWI

[Bflatman]

Kennedy said

"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard"

I choose to play this instrument not because it is easy.

I see some players ask what instrument has the easiest blow what mouthpiece has the easiest high register.

If I wanted an easy instrument I would choose the triangle.

I do not care if there is an easier instrument or easier mouthpiece or an easier alternate fingering.

I have only one phrase that guides me in all things.

Only the best is good enough.

And that means if it were twice as hard to blow the standard fingering but the intonation were better I would choose the harder correct standard fingering every single time.

No I dont notice and I wouldnt care if I did
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[kalijah]

BaeGrimes wrote:

[adagiotrumpet]

[lipshurt]

Answers:

You can def feel the dif between A1-2 and A-3rd. The main reason is pitch. #rd is Flat, and 1-2 is sharp. So if you go from 1-2 sitting down on the pitch, to 3rd sitting up on the pitch, 3rd is going to feel more resistant.

If you trigger you first valve and make it as flat as 3rd valve, and go back and forth, then 1-2 is going to feel more resistant.

If you Dont trigger you first valve, and in the course of playing a musical passage you have have to lip way down on a low E which happens to be the major 3rd of a chord, that note will not feel that good. Then if you play that same passage and play the low E with 3rd valve, its goona feel great, ciz 3rd valve is flat, and the 3rd of the chord also needs to be Flat.

Some horns are not as sharp or flat on 3rd valve as others. SOme vintage horns have extra length built in on the 3rd valve to make low D and Low C# in tune. Then 3rd valve A is gonna be real flat. SOme horns like Bach are not cut long on the 3rd slide cuz you will trigger that 3rd slide on D and C#.

Same thing on the first valve slide tubing. There are different systems for deciding the length of that tube, like how flat the first valve D will be. If its flat, then no additional length can be added to the first tube. You will have to trigger it. A conn 36B is not flat at all on the first valve D, so the tube can be a little longer. You could even pull it a bit or put an O-ring in there.

As for Spit, yeah you can feel it, but it doesnt feel as much like "resitance" as it it just feels like the horn is getting weird. Like not centering or locking the notes, or some notes on resonating as much as others. Lind of like a bad valve alignment would feel. Then if you empty out the bell and get it all out the horn is back to good again. SOme water key placements never get it all out, so you need to blow it all out the bell or first slide tube.
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[TrpPro]

[cheiden]

The question to a trumpet player on how something FEELS is tricky. Most of the time when I play a note with 1&2 versus 3 it feels different, responds differently and sounds different.

Every time I get even a hint that there's excess water I drain it. Probably due to a sensation or a sound more than a feeling.
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[Billy B]