Should we use our cellphones to record our playing

[Jaw04]

[JoseLindE4]

I’ve had my college students do some of the virtual ensemble recordings with their phones and the results are quite good.

I’m sure better equipment used more expertly than a quick phone recording during practice does a better job, but that isn’t really the comparison that matters. The comparison that matters is phone recording (which is always available) vs. nothing (which is more likely if the player is set on using better equipment). Convenient but slightly degraded recording is often better than inconvenient but superior recording because convenient gets used whereas inconvenient doesn’t.

My phone tells me if I’m out of tune, if my time is bad, if some notes are less focused, etc. It tells me plenty and is pretty much always on me.

[etc-etc]

[Bflatman]

Then I think we have reached a good place.

iPhones can make quality recordings if you know what you are doing and record with care in a professional manner and I like that they are capable of good recordings.

My experience is exclusively with android and your words strike home with me etc-etc.

I will give you some personal history that led me here to start this thread.

I have been recorded many times over the last 5 years without my permission usually on android and the resulting recording is then posted on the internet.

That is not a good experience for a performer and perhaps this has colored my judgement unfairly.

Most days I am recorded without my knowledge or permission usually on android and today I was told of yet another recording of me that has been posted onto the internet.

I really dont like this happening with no control at all over the sound quality of the recording equipment and no editorial control, but nothing can be done to prevent it, it comes with the territory.

I feel much happier with cellphones now but only with iPhones and not with android.

I think android will eventually follow the iPhone lead and improve the technology.

I cant wait for that to happen.

Thank you to everyone who contributed. I value all your opinions.

And you guys were quite right some cellphones can make good recordings.

I have been educated on this now.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[SMrtn]

Obviously, one should invest in a Zoom H2 or similar. Plenty of secondhand available. Excellent sound quality. Cellphone? Crazy.

[Robert P]

[deleted_user_687c31b]

After reading many of the replies, it seems that the benefits of recording oneself greatly depend on how and what. Not every cell phone seems equally suited to do so, and it also depends on the recording software. My personal experiences with the iPhone voice recorder app have been mixed. Its good to hear that I’m rushing parts when I feel I’m not for example, but at the same time it can be demoralizing when you hear your sound quality lacking (and if you have no way to verify whether its you or the recording). My partners’ phone records much better than my own. I was pleasantly surprised that I didn’t sound quite as terrible as I did on my own recordings, which almost caused me to throw in the towel.

[Bflatman]

I cannot prove this because I am unable to play live on the forum followed by a recording so you are going to have to take my word.

Feel free to call me a liar because what I am about to say sounds ridiculous even to me.

My problem is all I have is my experiences and the telling of them.

Whether you believe me is up to you.

When the public describe my playing they call it great they call it beautiful and they call it gorgeous. I have been called the best trumpet player they have heard and also their favorite trumpet player.

They could all be wrong of course.

On the other hand after hearing me play:-
the musicians who ask me to form bands with them,
the orchestra members who ask me to join them in orchestra rehearsal,
the brass band members who invite me to join their brass band saying they need me in their brass band,
the producers who asked me to record with them,
the film crew who auditioned several trumpet players for a role and then chose only me to appear - I never found out what happened with that.
the fans who follow me around while I play
the fans from 6 to 60 who run to me to ask me to play for them

all appear to believe I can play this hunk of metal really quite well.

I even found myself outside a swamped music venue in the city and a large group of disappointed fans outside were in despair. They came to hear their favorite band play and they could not get in the venue they were distraught.

So I played a long set for them in the street right then and there as a gift no rehearsal and no warmup. When I finished they said it was a better performance than the stage show they came to see.

I am not bragging here but you need to have some measure of where I fall in quality of play from amateur to pro level given that there is no possibility of hearing a recording so I have to give you enough examples.

I can give a lot more examples than these.

An amateur with poor intonation poor articulation poor tone and with no dynamics and no timing and no swing will of course sound bad on recordings but they will also sound bad in real life.

I know I am above this level but you guys need to know it too.

I did think at one time that recordings might be a reliable measure but the recordings are the complete opposite of everything I hear from what audiences tell me what musicians tell me and what music producers tell me about my playing.

Whenever I am recorded it always sounds horrific thin and amateurish.

How can this be if i am supposed to be a good player. Nobody in their right mind could like the cat screeching and the sounds of fingernails drawn down a blackboard that is on the recordings of me on cellphone and yet just yesterday I was told my sound is gorgeous. I am told that every day.

The difference between reality reported to me and recording of me is insane and is a gulf big enough to sink the bismark the lucitania and the titanic combined.

Must I call everyone who listens to me an idiot.

How does pathetic and screechy equate to great wonderful and gorgeous.

Are the music fans the musicians and the music producers incapable of any judgement of quality

How does a performing choir singer who said she thought my playing was a choir singing, equate with pathetic thin sounding and screeching.

Everyone who hears me says I am fabulous every recording says I am pathetic. Which do I trust on this.

The only conclusion I can come up with is either every single member of the public and every member of the recording industry is totally insane and has no judgement whatsoever and that includes every musician and every music producer,

or

The recording devices used are not capable of recording what people are hearing.

I have even had the full hollywood movie scene happen to me more than once. A couple of times a car has screeched to a halt beside me after hearing me, one did a u-turn and out jump guys who ask me to record in their studio.

Maybe it is me being naive but I assumed that does not happen when you sound as crap as the recordings clearly show me to be.

Recordings of course cannot possibly be wrong.

All the audiences and listeners say I sound wonderful but all the equipment says I sound truly awful and the worst player in history.

Either the equipment is insane or I am insane or everyone in society is insane. There is no fourth choice.

The weakest link is the gear so I am calling that insane I would rather call the equipment insane instead of calling myself insane or everyone in the world insane.

And for validation I will mention the canadian artist who created for the second largest city in the country a large work of art as a memorial to commemorate the fallen victims of a terrorist bombing in that city.

Of all the musicians in the city he auditioned he chose me to play the commemorative piece as a solo poignant trumpet to accompany the grand opening of his work.

Audiences, musicians, music producers, cannot surely all be wrong, so the equipment must be wrong, or there must be something wrong with the laws of physics.

If you want more examples I will give them I have dozens more if you want a recording think again.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[etc-etc]

You are not the only one - Bix Beiderbecke's recordings have also failed to capture the magic of his sound, according to one of his biographers (I think this note might have been written by Humphrey Lyttelton).

[Andy Cooper]

[lipshurt]

Bb man.....

If you simply get the spire app on a recent iPhone and record yourself you will find out if all your fans and yourself are living in a fantasy world. The iPhone with spire app will be telling the truth, and reality will be right there. Don’t listen on the phone speaker.

You will have to do the things I said in my earlier post regarding mic placement in relation to the instrument as well as placement of the mic and instrument in whatever room you are in.

I assume you are interested enough in reality to do those things.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[dstpt]

[Bflatman]

lipshurt

Thank you for that contribution.

I am fully aware that I may well be living in a fantasy world that thought makes me question myself every day.

I will follow your advice but I need an iPhone to do that.

The thread has opened my eyes to the capabilities of iPhones and the fact that many musicians are getting good recordings on that platform.

Once I get a good recording setup I will be using it for sure and probably will have comprehensive egg on my face.

It wont be the first time that has happened.

I am not scared of looking foolish what scares me is trying to avoid looking foolish and hiding from the truth.

The truth can hurt but what hurts more in the long term is living a lie.

I know the way forward now.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[Robert P]

[etc-etc]

Consider also Rode ixy-L, a lightning-connector stereo 139 dB SPL microphone that can be plugged into iPhone 5 or later:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/iXYL--rode-ixy-l-stereo-microphone-for-ios-lightning-devices

Compared to similarly configured Zoom iQ6 (rated for 130 dB SPL) , the Rode offering attaches to the phone with a jaw reducing the potential stress on the port.

The downside of these lightning port-specific microphone attachments is that you tie yourself to a particular generation of phones - what if Apple discontinues the lightning connector?

[dstpt]

Not worth posting on this thread.

[Bflatman]

There are many recordings of me but I dont have them or access to them.

There are videos of me on the net in areas I dont visit or have access to.

All the recordings and videos I have heard of me were appalling but these were all on crappy mics.

These are my minimum standards for playing anything and I expect to meet them every time:-

great articulation
sharp attack
smooth and full tones
no mistakes
good rhythm and swing
good timing
good use of dynamics.

I consider this the bare minimum for all playing

I admit that sometimes I do hit a wrong note and sometimes I do sound a but thin and sometimes I dont have great attack but these issues can be addressed with a heap of work in the woodshed.

I have recorded myself several times and all recordings were exceptionally disappointing.

I simply do not care to publish a sub standard recording.

If I get a good recording I will be happy to post it.

Whatever is posted on the internet lives forever and I dont want another sub standard music rendition of mine to live forever in my name enough of that goes on already.

I prefer as a performer, that only good sounds and only good music are made public. And sometimes I am happy with my playing but I am a perfectionist so it is rare that I am happy.

Like it or not I have a reputation and this is not of my choosing, but having acquired a reputation I need to protect it if I can.

A guy many years ago asked if he can record me and post it online saying he will make me famous, my reply was I already am.

I usually spend a few days learning a melody and then I spend over 1 month working on it making it sound good, but that is not enough.

It takes me 3 to 6 months to make a piece sound full rich and vibrant smooth and "together". Only then is it performance ready and only then am I happy with it and perform it as part of a set or in requests.

A chet baker fan asked me a few days ago to play for her she had heard me playing a few opening notes of my funny valentine.

I asked how well she knows his work and she said she knows it all in depth and loves it all, I could tell she loved his work so I played almost blue for her.

When you play a substandard rendition of their idols work for a fan they become upset. But she loved my rendition of almost blue and that is all the validation any musician should need.

When you can play chet baker to a chet baker fan and they love it you can say you really have nailed the performance.

Fans are the toughest audience when you play their idols work because your playing is compared with knowledge to the great man and fans are very demanding.

I live by a phrase. - only the best is good enough.

There is no way I will publish anything that is not in my opinion jazz club and concert hall standard there will be no exceptions on this.

As an observation I watch utube videos of brass players and I recently listened to one musician who had been playing for 30 years and has played professionally.

He was playing a euphonium in his small recording studio with all the gear set up and adjusted one mic for recording his playing and one mic for recording his speech.

The reason for this of course is the dynamics changes between speech and playing are difficult to deal with if you use only one single mic. Many players who record do not have the care or the knowledge to set this up correctly but this guy knows his recording onions.

He played several numbers and spoke between each number switching mics between them and when he played it was always beautiful rich vibrant and a joy to hear.

Then he switched mics back to speech mic and spoke and introduced another number and then he forgot to switch mics back to his performance mic.

It was catastrophic for the tone, thin weak and rank sounding. He sounded like a total amateur.

On the speech mic I would judge him as having just picked up the instrument and about to begin taking lessons. On the performance mic I would judge him as being capable of giving lessons.

Then he apologised and switched mics and played into his performance mic again and back came the sweet lyrical and beautiful tones and beautiful playing.

Same instrument same performer same piece same studio same software same computer same time of day. Everything was the same except the microphone but I will accept the speech mic was slightly further away from the instrument and not aligned with the bell.

But the mic being a few inches further away does not make you sound like a d1ck unless you also sound like a d1ck when the mic is closer.

On the speech mic he was thin and screechy and on the performance mic he was beautiful lyrical and gorgeous sounding.

And that was in a studio setup with dedicated mics.

I would pay good money to hear that man on his dedicated performance mic I would not even pay peanuts to hear him on his dedicated speech mic.

And as if by coincidence the recording on his speech mic sounded oddly similar to the recordings that I get and I hear of my playing on cellphones which use speech mics. I think there is a correlation here and it is not a coincidence.

You could argue that if you are a good enough player the mic makes no difference because all the harmonics and partials in your playing are full rich and complete.

But if you sound great to audiences and you sound great on good quality mics then have you not attained all the necessary quality of a performance.

If you need to practice for 10 years to become good enough to sound good on crappy mics as well then have you not got the buggy in front of the horse.

Why take the ten extra years of studious hard work just so you can sound good on crappy equipment that you dont use anyway if you have any sense, when with 5 minutes effort and a few dollars you can transform your playing by using a good mic to record on. It is the price of a good meal in a restaurant.

If on the other hand you have no intention of playing live and all your playing is done at home on cheap mics or cellphones and posted online then it is important that you sound good in that environment

We have to ask ourselves this. What is the point of playing an instrument, is to give pleasure to people or is it to sound good on a crappy mic.

So no I will not publish a crappy recording made on crappy equipment just to demonstrate that it is crappy.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[theslawdawg]

Wow. 1149 words. That's more impressive than just saying you aren't recording yourself with a phone.
_________________
My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs

[Bflatman]

I can be more impressive than that.

They say big is better doesnt that mean bigger posts.

I love your directness and plain speaking slaw.

I hope to see more of it.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet