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8compton New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Lawler model: where is it?? |
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I was blessed to get a Lawler trumpet recently and absolutely love it. However, for the life of me, I can't find the model of the horn! I located the serial number (0832), found the Roy Lawler traditional "Ps1" on the middle valve, but i have no idea what Lawler I am playing. It may not matter what model it is, as the horn plays beautifully, but it's like driving a Cadillac and not knowing what kind it is. Can you help me out?! |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 942 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, I had a Lawler I wish I had kept, it was a TL STS and I had a a Bach 72 bell do go with it. I got it used and just emailed Roy for the specs. So, just email him the serial number. I know he’s only making trombones now, but he probably has the info on hand.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,check the end of the bell , in the place that connects to valve block, usually thear is stamped the bell type,all the Lawlers I have/had has also stamped the leadpipe number on the mpc reciver or on the reciver that connects the leadpipe with the tuning slide.
I agree with you Roy's horns are unique.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Lawler is a fine gentleman. Send him an email and he'll likely answer your question. _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 4:01 am Post subject: |
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Roy is a very religious man and he stamps all of his horns with the Ps1 that means psalm of the bible number 1 but at one period he was made a heavier horn with that name.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 4:50 am Post subject: |
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I knew of the psalm but I did not know he stamped all his horns with it. |
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8compton New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link to the previous discussion on Ps1s. This solved the mystery.
Still, it’s a shame Roy stopped making trumpets. I did play with a guy who had one of Roy’s first trombones and he couldn’t say enough good things about the horn. Trumpet players loss is the trombone players gain. |
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royjohn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 2272 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I think you have some wrong info here...the Ps1 was one of Lawler's models, but not the only one...I don't think they are all stamped Ps1. There was a C7 and some other models. You can probably email him and get a more complete story. Or do some searching on here or use the wayback machine and look at his website some years back and all the info on the models will be on there.
I agree that it was a shame that he stopped making trumpets altogether and went to trombones. IDK why he didn't continue to make some trumpets, but craftsmen can do whatever they want and they have to live with themselves, so maybe he was just tired of trumpets...or those of us who play them! _________________ royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
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hose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 1854 Location: Winter Garden, FL
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Lawler model: where is it?? |
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8compton wrote: | I was blessed to get a Lawler trumpet recently and absolutely love it. However, for the life of me, I can't find the model of the horn! I located the serial number (0832), found the Roy Lawler traditional "Ps1" on the middle valve, but i have no idea what Lawler I am playing. It may not matter what model it is, as the horn plays beautifully, but it's like driving a Cadillac and not knowing what kind it is. Can you help me out?! |
If you Google "The Official Lawler Registry" there are many serial numbers listed. Your #832 is not there but was made in 2005. Because of an association with Roy I owned most of Roy's models from 2001 until 2007. I owned one of the first PS1's which I think was initiated around 2007. For several years Roy stamped PS1 on the valve casings of all his horns. That is not a model number. Look for C7 or TL5 or TL6. Sometimes just the bell was stamped with a small number and that was the model number. ie, 21 for the 21 model bell. Giakara has good info on Lawler models. _________________ Dave Wisner
Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I own or use to own seven TLs and one Star model,from Geneva period until Flat Creek that he stops to make trumpets and all had the Ps1 stamped , the only horn that is not stamped is a very old cornet from the Orlando (1992) period.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I will try to post all the models that Roy had make.
The early days until 2003 he named his horns with the name of the bell like #25,#26 etc.
From 2003 he start to use Getzen valves and valve blocks and the models I remember is.
TL5,TL6,TL6L,TL5R,TL6R and a very rare TL8 (very fast flare bell with almost flugel sound).
Model T , the work horse of the line with TL6L bell copy and #1 leadpipe.
Star model , French Besson based model with piercing sound.
Model B , I dont remember if the B stands for Bach or Benge , very few horns had made.
Ps1 model the heavier horn that Roy made.
C7 , the Martin committee copy , in many variations and options, the most successful model as far it concerns sales.
M7 model , his last design based on 60's Martin magna , with wide wrap and two different bells to choose,(this horn still exites me)
A small number custom and ceremonial balanced models.
I hope I did forget something.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Scooter Pirtle Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 143 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | I will try to post all the models that Roy had make.
The early days until 2003 he named his horns with the name of the bell like #25,#26 etc.
From 2003 he start to use Getzen valves and valve blocks and the models I remember is.
TL5,TL6,TL6L,TL5R,TL6R and a very rare TL8 (very fast flare bell with almost flugel sound).
Model T , the work horse of the line with TL6L bell copy and #1 leadpipe.
Star model , French Besson based model with piercing sound.
Model B , I dont remember if the B stands for Bach or Benge , very few horns had made.
Ps1 model the heavier horn that Roy made.
C7 , the Martin committee copy , in many variations and options, the most successful model as far it concerns sales.
M7 model , his last design based on 60's Martin magna , with wide wrap and two different bells to choose,(this horn still exites me)
A small number custom and ceremonial balanced models.
I hope I did forget something.
Regards |
Lawler also fabricated custom three piston G sopranos for FutureCorps (Disneyland/World) and assisted in converting King two piston contrabasses into four piston instruments. Roy also produced horizontally-valved bugles for the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps of Washington, D.C. These instruments were eventually replaced with piston bugles by Kanstul. _________________ Scooter Pirtle
Phoenix, AZ
Yamaha New York Bb Gen III
Yamaha Chicago C Gen III
www.middlehornleader.com
Last edited by Scooter Pirtle on Wed May 05, 2021 11:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Scooter Pirtle wrote: | giakara wrote: | I will try to post all the models that Roy had make.
The early days until 2003 he named his horns with the name of the bell like #25,#26 etc.
From 2003 he start to use Getzen valves and valve blocks and the models I remember is.
TL5,TL6,TL6L,TL5R,TL6R and a very rare TL8 (very fast flare bell with almost flugel sound).
Model T , the work horse of the line with TL6L bell copy and #1 leadpipe.
Star model , French Besson based model with piercing sound.
Model B , I dont remember if the B stands for Bach or Benge , very few horns had made.
Ps1 model the heavier horn that Roy made.
C7 , the Martin committee copy , in many variations and options, the most successful model as far it concerns sales.
M7 model , his last design based on 60's Martin magna , with wide wrap and two different bells to choose,(this horn still exites me)
A small number custom and ceremonial balanced models.
I hope I did forget something.
Regards |
Lawler also fabricated custom three piston G sopranos for FutureCorps (Disneyland/World) and assisted in converting King two piston contrabasses into four piston instruments. Roy also produced horizontally-valved bugles for the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps of Washington, D.C. These instruments were eventually replaced with piston bugles by Kanstul. |
Yes , and also some super rare piccolo and pocket trumpets .
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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hose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 1854 Location: Winter Garden, FL
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:55 am Post subject: |
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The best Lawler models came from the Getzen valves. Up until then it was a hodgepodge of divergent valve makers. Sometimes he nickel plated each piston himself. My Lawler flugel is prior to Getzen valves. In the early 2000's he also made a "brief case" trumpet. The bell detached and he made it fit into an ordinary business brief case which he fabricated himself. Similar to the detachable french horn bells. That horn played great! The slight weight of the coupling on the bell seemed to improve the blow. One of the many horns I've sold that I wish I had back. _________________ Dave Wisner
Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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hose wrote: | The best Lawler models came from the Getzen valves. Up until then it was a hodgepodge of divergent valve makers. Sometimes he nickel plated each piston himself. My Lawler flugel is prior to Getzen valves. In the early 2000's he also made a "brief case" trumpet. The bell detached and he made it fit into an ordinary business brief case which he fabricated himself. Similar to the detachable french horn bells. That horn played great! The slight weight of the coupling on the bell seemed to improve the blow. One of the many horns I've sold that I wish I had back. |
I have a cornet from Orlando period with Kanstul valves and metal guides and they are great , almost as good as Getzen.
As for the brief case I believe that was a oppion for all horns , I had a TL6L with STS bell option that had also a two piece #8 bell fits in a brief case , very practical , the one you had it was a separate model ? I never heard that , very interesting.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1140 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I had #0182 many years ago. (Hence my name here on TH). Made in 1992 in Orlando, FL. #25H bell. Originally a #2 leadpipe that I had him change to a 1A. Kanstul valves. Raw brass. Played really well, but was different than anything else I had experience with (at that point). A unique but still mainstream sound. It resonated in your hands like nothing else I have played. Low A produced a crazy amount of vibration.
I would love to find it. No idea where it is. _________________ Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting bell, 25H is like a modern #5 but probably heavyweight , never heard again about a standard bell but heavyweight , Roy as a handmade horn maker he had make almost everything in the 35 years of trumpet making.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1140 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | Interesting bell, 25H is like a modern #5 but probably heavyweight , never heard again about a standard bell but heavyweight , Roy as a handmade horn maker he had make almost everything in the 35 years of trumpet making.
Regards |
Yeah. From what I understand, the #25 was a lead-style bell? My horn didn't have a ton of sizzle, but it sounded beautiful. _________________ Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yes the #5 bell is the commercial/lead bell of the line but the heavier version it will have more meaty sound , #5R (red brass) also have more meaty sound but the yellow brass with the proper mpc is a real weapon ...
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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