First horn - Cornet from beginner to intermedate

funkfaker · New Member Joined: 03 Aug 2023 Posts: 5

Hello, everyone.

I've always wanted to learn to play trumpet, and when I described the type of sound I want to hear/play (dark, smokey), someone recommended a cornet. I'd like to have a horn that won't need upgrading as I progress, so something that will last me from a beginner through intermediary stages. I've got around $400.

It was recommended to look for an Olds Ambassador - I've seen some in very good condition and sanitized/cleaned up for around $350-400. I certainly like the idea of a vintage horn.

All that said, I'd love to hear the perspectives from you all, as I'm coming from ground zero on this endeavor.

Thank you in advance!
Tommy

Richard III · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:12 am Post subject:

I think you are on the right track. I have numerous cornets and my current "go to" horn is the Ambassador. Why? It is totally dependable. The valves are great and it will do anything I ask.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

Halflip · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:37 am Post subject:

Whatever you look at, if you are considering a used horn (and if you want to find something that won't need upgrading as you progress, you may have to), have a brass tech check the valve compression to make sure that the valves aren't too worn and leaky. A horn with leaky valves will have a negative impact your learning experience -- learning trumpet/cornet is challenging enough without having the horn fight you because it is not in good playing condition.

Of course, this means that if you buy a horn from a remote seller (on eBay, for example), you should make sure that they accept returns within some reasonable time limit. That way you can have a tech check it, and send it back if it doesn't "pass muster".
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:18 am Post subject:

Unless you really know what you're doing, buying from an individual can be a crap shoot. Because of this, I recommend your buying from a merchant with a liberal return policy. The price may be a litttle higher but it's more secure.

If it were me, I would contact Austin Custom Brass, Dillon Music, Chuck Levin's or other online shops and tell their experienced salesmen what you want and what your budget is. Takes the guess work out of it. (Don't worry, they probably won't screw you.)

You might also like to reevaluate your choice of a cornet. If you plan to play in a very good community band or big band, you are probably going to want a trumpet (for blending and carrying power). If not, no biggie but I thought you should be aware of that.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

cheiden · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:36 am Post subject:

An Ambassador cornet with a standard mouthpiece won't sound very different than a trumpet. I wouldn't call that sound dark or smoky. Not that this is a bad thing. I've played Ambassadors that I liked quite a bit.

The softer broader sound folks associate with the cornet is often exemplified in the British brass band tradition. If that's the sound you seek then perhaps then Ambassador is not your best option.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

funkfaker · New Member Joined: 03 Aug 2023 Posts: 5

Jerry · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:41 am Post subject:

I would think that your teacher would be one to help direct your purchase.

You have a teacher, right?

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:23 am Post subject:

You can get a “dark, smoky sound” with most any cornet if you use a deep, British brass band style mouthpiece. Those mouthpieces are more demanding to play from an endurance and range standpoint, though.

If you can find a 1960s Conn 5A Victor short cornet, they are really good instruments that are in the cornet middle ground of tone, and would probably be in your price range. That way, you can color the tone from bright to dark with a couple different mouthpieces. A more shallow mouthpiece for concert band work, and a a big deep one for the dark sound you’re looking for.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Mike Prestage · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:31 am Post subject:

Either the Yamaha 2330 or 2310 would be solid cornet choices for a beginner and I imagine you'd be able to find lightly used ones within your budget. (US-based posters might correct me on that though!)

I agree with Kehaulani comment about trumpet vs. cornet. There'd be more potential discussion here if you filled us in a bit on where you're hoping to go with the instrument. Regardless of where that might be though, I'd honestly advise any beginner on trumpet/cornet to avoid getting preoccupied with a 'speciality' sound. It's hugely valuable as a developing player to work consistently towards a sound that's broadly characteristic of the instrument.

'Dark and smoky' is highly subjective of course, but I can't really imagine an interpretation that would have much in common with a solid starting-point sound on the cornet. (I also don't think it matters much that the gap might be even wider with the trumpet). It would be interesting to hear what music inspired you to learn the cornet - could you maybe list a few recordings and or players' names?

Mike
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www.facebook.com/MikePrestageTrumpetTeacher

Mike Prestage · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:10 am Post subject:

Meant to add - Yamaha market those models as student cornets and the more expensive 4330 as intermediate but IMO it's not worth taking that too seriously!

Mike
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www.facebook.com/MikePrestageTrumpetTeacher

cheiden · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:40 am Post subject:

funkfaker · New Member Joined: 03 Aug 2023 Posts: 5

Mike Prestage · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:56 am Post subject:

Thanks for the background info. I think what you're hearing from Roy Hargrove is a combination of:

- A great ability to shape the sound and bring in a 'soft focus' quality
- Mastery of the softer end of the instument's dynamic range
- How it was recorded, mixed etc.

I've never heard anything from him that struck me as cornet-like, and he had a really raw, intense trumpet sound in his back pocket! Here's a phenominal live recording where you can hear some great contrasts in sound. The only free version I've found with the video is in two parts but it's worth it to watch how he uses the mic. (Mic technique is a really underappreciated aspect of trumpet sound IMO.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0WXEzwZOv0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXxXQRoMJ1w

Mike
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www.facebook.com/MikePrestageTrumpetTeacher

jhatpro · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:21 am Post subject:

I recommend an Olds Ambassador cornet, preferably one built in Fullerton. (Most of the ones built earlier in Los Angeles had a larger receiver which requires a mouthpiece with a larger shank.)

I make this suggestion because Ambassadors show up on eBay, Craigslist, Goodwill Online, and the Trumpet Herald Marketplace. You should be able to find one that’s playable for under $100.

The horn would be perfect to learn on and as you progress you could upgrade to a Bach, Yamaha, Getzen or any other respected brand and keep the Olds as something to throw in your luggage when you go on vacation.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

funkfaker · New Member Joined: 03 Aug 2023 Posts: 5

Denny Schreffler · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:01 pm Post subject:

Mike Prestage · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:28 am Post subject:

jhatpro · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:50 am Post subject:

I think there are a lot of very affordable horns that would be fine for a beginner. I say that because the first year or so is as much about muscle building as it is music. The OP has a head start because he’s already a musician but it’s still going to take a while to build some chops and whether the instrument is an Olds or virtually anything it’s not going to matter as long as it’s in playable condition.

My inclination would be to go with the cheapest option and start putting some money aside for a premier horn when the chops are ready to do it justice.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

funkfaker · New Member Joined: 03 Aug 2023 Posts: 5

cheiden · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:35 am Post subject:

A used Yamaha student model trumpet should be something you can find that will suit the budget.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart