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Finding a mouthpiece



 
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davidrxy
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Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:38 pm    Post subject: Finding a mouthpiece Reply with quote

Hey guys, relatively new to the forum here. I can feel myself recently moving to a "new stage" of playing the trumpet. My technique is developing a bit and I also just moved on from my "entry" horn to an awesome professional Getzen.

I'm still a little unsure mouthpiece-wise. I moved on to a bach 3C from my 7C and liked it a lot more. Then, I bought a blowout-sale TA3 from Austin Custom Brass in a heavyweight blank and thought it out-performed the 3C in every aspect, from range to tone to response to efficiency, it was awesome. Out of a whim, I tried my friend's Olds 3 mouthpiece and thought it worked surprisingly well. I'm not sure if it's better than my TA3, but I was definitely surprised by how comfortable it was, my upper register also felt a little easier too. I also tried a Yamaha bobby shew lead mouthpiece, but I haven't played enough on it to come to any conclusion.

I think part of the reason I like the TA3 and the Olds 3 better might be that they are in a heavier blank than the Bach 3C and Yamaha. Could this be the case, or is it more about "cup design" and backbore? I ordered a KGU mouthpiece booster to try with my "standard weight" mouthpieces. Also, are there any "modern" mouthpieces similar to the Olds 3 that I should try out?
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2426
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that after recently switching horns it's also a good idea to fool around with mouthpieces.
The heavier blanks (can) make(s) the sound more stable and more centered (and stiffer slots). But everything in trumpetplaying comes with a price, heavier blanks tend to create more resistance and possibly less resonance.
So choose one mouthpiece for the time being and stay on it for quite some time.
The best option seems to me the 3C (though I'm personally not a fan of it). Forget the booster for the time being, it's better to find first your natural sound, balance and the learning curve for resistance.
The Olds 3 I don't know.
The 7C seems to be your Yamaha, if bigger mp's suit you better you could try the Yamaha 14B4 (eventually in heavy blank, the 14B4GP), it's just a tad smaller than the 3C, not deep and cheap. James Morrison plays one.
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2477

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the TA3 is "awesome" why do you want to switch to something else? If it was me and I felt that my mouthpiece was "awesome" I would be playing it more, not looking for something else.
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HERMOKIWI
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hibidogrulez
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Joined: 25 Jun 2020
Posts: 804
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
I don't think that after recently switching horns it's also a good idea to fool around with mouthpieces.

Agree with delano here. It's likely that after a while you'll find your old mouthpieces simply don't work as well with your new instrument, but it helps to get to know you horn a bit before you start switching mouthpieces.

davidrxy wrote:
Also, are there any "modern" mouthpieces similar to the Olds 3 that I should try out?

Maybe this thread will be helpful.
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Enthusiastic amateur with good intentions. My personal experiences may not match yours. Value my posts as you see fit.

Plays an Olds Recording with AR Resonance mouthpiece(s)
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with those who think it might be a good idea to pick one mpc and stay with it for a while on the new horn.

When you are acclimated to the new horn, then you can start comparing one mpc to another. Since you have a couple or three that work for you, you might start there and find out which one is favored over the others.

What I was missing from your mpc search was any sense of being systematic. There are so many mpc variables that it is best to isolate them as much as possible. Vary the ID first, keeping the cup depth and shape, the throat size and the backbore, as much as possible, the same. Once you are pretty clear that you have the right ID, then ask yourself what aspect of that mpc you might want to change. Shallower or deeper cup? Different backbore? Different rim? Change one or another of these at a time.

There are on line sellers who will allow you to trial one or more mpcs and return the one(s) you don't like. This makes a mpc safari a whole lot more inexpensive.

There are also mpc gurus who will consult with you and send you several pieces to try. Phyllis Stork is justly famous for this, and there are others. They are going to ask you what you like and don't like about your mpc and what playing problems you are trying to remedy.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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JWG
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogous to how Bobby Shew says that the "trumpet is the mouthpiece" (as everything beyond the mouthpiece just resonates), I would say that "the mouthpiece is the rim," as the rim constitutes the tactile interface between your lips and the instrument.

Once you have settled on a particular rim size/shape and trained your lips to vibrate sympathetically with that rim, the remainder of mouthpiece variables become easy to alter to your needs.

The cup shape and depth, the throat size, and the backbore shape can all get altered without adversely affecting your sound production, because everything that you do from the lips backward into your body remains the same. The cup, throat, and backbore of a mouthpiece just resonate the soundwaves emanating from your lips, as does the trumpet that you attach to the mouthpiece.

If your rim's diameter and shape does not accommodate your lip size, no matter what dimensions the mouthpiece has afterward, you will have difficulty with sound production.

Yet, if you need a darker vs. brighter, higher range vs. lower range, louder vs. softer sound, you can easily change mouthpiece cup, throat, and backbore variables to achieve just the sound you want/need for a particular performance.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, & O mouthpieces
Bach 180SL72 with 1.5B 24/24 & M/K Drawing Bronze SR Tuning Slide and third valve slide
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2211
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWG wrote:

Quote:

The cup shape and depth, the throat size, and the backbore shape can all get altered without adversely affecting your sound production, because everything that you do from the lips backward into your body remains the same. The cup, throat, and backbore of a mouthpiece just resonate the soundwaves emanating from your lips, as does the trumpet that you attach to the mouthpiece.


While I would agree that the basic ID of the mpc is the first variable to consider, I just don't think what you've stated above is at all correct acoustically. The vibrating system depends on all the variables in the mpc and the horn. There is a world of difference between a shallow cup, which some might actually bottom out on, and a deep one. There is also a point at which a throat becomes just too large for anyone. A 27 throat works for a lot of people, and somewhat bigger might be better for some, but when you get (on a trumpet) to 22, you are approaching the limits for most people.

If you're saying that things remain mostly the same for ballpark average throats, cup shapes and depths, and typical average backbores, I can agree, but every little difference in any of the variables makes the lips vibrate a little differently. If "everything you do from the lips backward into your body remains the same" regardless of mouthpiece dimensions except for the ID, there wouldn't be much point in changing them, now would there be?
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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huntman10
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017
Posts: 146
Location: Texas South Plains

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As regarding the OP's experience with the Olds mouthpiece, there were many different iterations on the rim Olds produced. My first horn was a new 1960 Olds Amassador cornet with an Olds 3 mouthpiece. I remember the rim was very wide and flat, making it comfortable and easy to play long sessions and higher range. Over the years, I have stashed a few of the Olds 3 and 3C from that era. I do occasionally pull one out to remind myself, but they don't produce that resonance and tone I started trying other mouthpieces to find.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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