Plastic parts at top of valve?

[trackday]

I have just purchased a used 1974 Olds Recording. The top section of the valves are plastic. Is this normal, either original or a valid replacement piece? I am referring to the sleeve behind the spring, and the piece with the nub that aligns the valve. I would have thought the original would be in metal, but I am really ignorant in these matters.

[Steve B]

My guess is that they have been replaced at some point and time. The reason I say that is because my 1970's BACH Strad. has metal guides although my new BACH Strad has plastic. Not sure why they think plastic would be better than metal, but what do I know? I don't build 'em, I just play 'em.

[dr-pepp]

Olds made plastic valve guides in the 70's. They are interchangeable with the brass parts from 1950's and 1960's Olds horns. It is actually a 2 piece assembly.

Here is what they look like when removed and separated:


The brass guides were used on all the Olds models and are generally interchangable, so parts horns show up all the time on ebay.

Here is a photo of the later Olds spring barrels which were nylon.


_________________
Clay Collins
Owner, Centex Brass
www.centexbrass.com
also administrator of Olds Central
www.olds-central.com

[DickKelso]

I have a 1971 Olds Super. I am stymied by how to separate the "two-piece" plastic valve guide. There is an e-clip at the top but even taking that off does not allow the top to come off to replace the spring. Any ideas, short of destroying the plastic? Thanks

[Irving]

It was normal in their later horns. I bought a Mendez once that had the plastic valve tops. The guides are built in, and one of the valves had a problem with the guide, so it never seated properly in the casing. Solution? I bought a beater Ambassador (with metal valve tops) switched the valves, and they worked perfectly. I don't think that you can do that with the recording, but I am not sure.

[OldSchoolEuph]

In the case of Olds and the external top spring design, the switch to plastic may simply be an economic choice. For valves with springs inside the spring box and the typical guide that extends through a slot though, plastic guides are a deliberate focus of wear on an inexpensive part. The guide is far easier and cheaper to replace when it wears, than the spring box is when a brass guide wears the slot wide.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Beyond16]

I have had lots of Olds horns and never encountered the plastic parts. Here's a 1974 Olds Special cornet #920434. I sold this one, and one reason is the non-brass looking valve springs were way too stiff for me. I alway wondered if they were original. Older Olds have softer springs:

[DickKelso]

Interesting. Olds history from that period seems to be a little obscure. Good horn, tho.

[ebolton]

Sort of related, but not specific to Olds: has anybody tried 3-D printing valve guides to replace worn-out nylon ones? Looks like it would be a pretty easy job, and an ABS printed valve guide would probably be intermediate in performance to brass and nylon (noisier than nylon, but longer lasting).
_________________
-Ed

[LittleRusty]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[DickKelso]

All too true. Great website, have been enjoying it.

[yourbrass]

The Olds plastic valve parts were made of a material known as "Delrin."

It was ballyhooed as a great advance at the time. (1970's)

They went as far as a plastic trumpet, (Olds Pinto) but they had the sense to keep the bell and other parts in brass.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[OldSchoolEuph]

[yourbrass]