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trompette24 Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Posts: 56 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:52 am Post subject: Red Rot Devaluation Question |
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There's a cornet that I'm interested in buying but appears to have about a dozen or so spots that fit the exact description of red rot. The seller is asking about $2k which already sounds a bit high but I was considering it because the horn is no longer manufactured (Selmer Concept Cornet, I don't know anything about them, but curious to try it).
He didn't disclose anything about the spots in the listing description, I happened to see it on a photo I enlarged and then mention it to him. He has since sent me more photos and the spots appear throughout a good portion of the lead pipe. He says there are no leaks and I understand that red rot can take time to eat through the metal.
My questions is, knowing this horn's lead pipe has a death sentence and there likely would not be a replacement part, how much would this devalue the instrument? Should I just walk away?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Here is a Google drive link to two photos of the spots on the horn:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wj6Mqv4w4okBx9KN4M328AlP7xdD8eaD/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyhfBt18aKd8sj1gZlI9sfOk8jdK0Iml/view?usp=sharingv[/img] _________________ -Russell Zimmer, DMA
AR Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 43/7
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 37/43
Yamaha 8310z Gen 1 Trumpet |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Run Russell run (away)! |
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Master Jabroni Regular Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 30 Location: World wide
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:25 am Post subject: |
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There are absolutely 0 Selmer Paris parts being made. If you guy it be prepared to replace the leadpipe in a few years. You will have to find a technician to make a proper copy which will be expensive. _________________ Musician & machinist.
Many Bachs, Yamahas, and others.
"I call it how I see it" |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | Run Russell run (away)! |
Yes! Just like Forrest, Forrest Gump! |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: |
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That's quite a high cost for a used Selmer cornet. Is it one of the C/Bb/A models, or otherwise of historic or personal importance?
Those pictures show extensive and later-stage red rot, meaning the material will develop holes in short order, which will be exacerbated by ultrasonic cleaning and certain chemicals. If there was a concentrated spot, expertly-applied patches could make the horn play and almost look as good as new for years to come, however that's not the case here - this horn has extensive issues, which would be too many to reasonably patch up.
Not to simply parrot the advice given above, I would encourage you to ask the seller why an instrument with this level of irreversible damage should yield such a high price. Even if this were one of those rare beautiful horns I had to have, I personally wouldn't pay half the price you quoted in the OP.
Best,
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 520 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Red rot is not a death sentence if proper care and maintenance is kept up.
Honestly that rot doesn't look that bad. If you have the horn cleaned properly and then swab out and oil the leadpipe before you play, the horn can outlast you.
Some players rot things quickly. Others don't. I've never had a horn develop rot, but I know some people who go through instruments every 5 or 10 years. _________________ www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: |
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The damage does not look that terrible. At worst, some patching might be called for - so long as your body chemistry does not tend to produce red rot as well. Replacing a cornet leadpipe is exceptionally challenging, and there are only a few people in the world who could replicate that pipe in a way that would result in the horn playing the same - and they would be exceptionally expensive.
Considering all of those factors, I would "run" at the price indicated, but maybe not at a more reasonable one. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Red Rot Devaluation Question |
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trompette24 wrote: | There's a cornet that I'm interested in buying but appears to have about a dozen or so spots that fit the exact description of red rot. The seller is asking about $2k which already sounds a bit high but I was considering it because the horn is no longer manufactured (Selmer Concept Cornet, I don't know anything about them, but curious to try it).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyhfBt18aKd8sj1gZlI9sfOk8jdK0Iml/view?usp=sharingv[/img] |
Russell,
I agree w/the others - price is too high, rot is not fatal, could be dealt with.
I have one in the shop now and the owner says it really plays good.
Best,
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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trompette24 Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Posts: 56 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Danbassin wrote: | That's quite a high cost for a used Selmer cornet. Is it one of the C/Bb/A models, or otherwise of historic or personal importance?
Those pictures show extensive and later-stage red rot, meaning the material will develop holes in short order, which will be exacerbated by ultrasonic cleaning and certain chemicals. If there was a concentrated spot, expertly-applied patches could make the horn play and almost look as good as new for years to come, however that's not the case here - this horn has extensive issues, which would be too many to reasonably patch up.
Not to simply parrot the advice given above, I would encourage you to ask the seller why an instrument with this level of irreversible damage should yield such a high price. Even if this were one of those rare beautiful horns I had to have, I personally wouldn't pay half the price you quoted in the OP.
Best,
-DB |
Thank you for the information and advice! _________________ -Russell Zimmer, DMA
AR Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 43/7
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 37/43
Yamaha 8310z Gen 1 Trumpet |
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trompette24 Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Posts: 56 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Red Rot Devaluation Question |
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yourbrass wrote: | trompette24 wrote: | There's a cornet that I'm interested in buying but appears to have about a dozen or so spots that fit the exact description of red rot. The seller is asking about $2k which already sounds a bit high but I was considering it because the horn is no longer manufactured (Selmer Concept Cornet, I don't know anything about them, but curious to try it).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyhfBt18aKd8sj1gZlI9sfOk8jdK0Iml/view?usp=sharingv[/img] |
Russell,
I agree w/the others - price is too high, rot is not fatal, could be dealt with.
I have one in the shop now and the owner says it really plays good.
Best,
-Lionel |
Thanks, Lionel! I'm looking forward to visiting the shop again in the hopefully near future! _________________ -Russell Zimmer, DMA
AR Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 43/7
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 37/43
Yamaha 8310z Gen 1 Trumpet |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Some people seem deathly afraid of a few spots of so-called red-rot.
Maybe it is just my body chemistry, but I have owned many used horns over the years with a little red-rot and the rot never progressed on any of them during my years of ownership. Of course, I keep my instruments cleaned and well-oiled and I play them regularly.
It seems the instruments with the most rot were the ones that sat in their cases for many years without being played. Without cleaning and protective oil, any grunge in the horn probably just sat there and festered away.
YMMV.
Steve |
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