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Trumpetstud Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2021 Posts: 208
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: Chris Botti Trumpet |
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Does anyone know the specs on Chris Botti’s trumpet? I’m guessing it would be hard to find one exactly like it to try and play. I think he said IF he ever found another one he would buy it fast! Anyway, is there anything made today that meets the same specs? If so, what would that be? |
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DJtpt31 Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2015 Posts: 308 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I thought he played on a Martin Committee trumpet? To be honest I haven't really kept up with him and what he plays now. |
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RETrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2021 Posts: 210
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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He plays a large bore Committee. I want to say it has an oversize bell flare as well, like 5 1/4", but don't quote me on that.
Closest new horn on the market right now, IMO, is the Adams A9 which is quite faithful to a scan of another Committee and is available in both the classic bores, medium and large (no ML). _________________ Bb: FrankenBach, '72 Committee, Conn 22B, King 2070SGX
C: Bach 229-MK slide/pipe, Bach 226 with YTR-9445(2) pipe
D/Eb: Bach 239 with YTR-9636 pipe
Picc: Stomvi Master, Couesnon Monopole
Cornet: Schilke A2C, '23 Buescher
Flugel: Scodwell Prototype |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1099 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:29 pm Post subject: Botti |
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Martin Handcraft Committee, large bore. In an interview, he said he loves the tone, though he also noted intonation can be a struggle. _________________ Brent |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Chris Botti plays a Martin handcraft Committee large (.468") bore. It's probably the rarest and most desirable vintage horn in the world. The Handcraft committee was the predecessor to the "regular" committee, and was only produced for 2 years before WWII. Large bore examples number in the single digits, but medium bore examples can be found more easily. The closest modern instrument to this design would be the bespoke trumpet at J Landress Brass that was made for Chris Botti to be a faithful replica of his Martin. For regular production instruments, the Adams A9, Schilke X4, and Schilke Handcraft are the closest thing to a vintage Martin. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Botti |
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Brent wrote: | Martin Handcraft Committee, large bore. In an interview, he said he loves the tone, though he also noted intonation can be a struggle. |
A 1939 Martin Handcraft Committee large bore. Apparently he lost or otherwise doesn't use the third valve slide adjustment ring because he performs without it on the horn. With no way to adjust the third valve slide that might explain some struggles with intonation.
I was watching one of his videos this morning. He has so much reverb cranked in that it would be impossible to know from the video what his tone is really like. That's not a complaint it's just an observation. He is clearly an excellent player.
Does anyone have a video or recording that hasn't been engineered to enhance his sound? It would be interesting to hear the real thing. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2054 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Now, I have never played any form of Committee trumpet and while I think they are cool looking, especially with the engraving, I am not sure I’d want one as an amateur. Must be quite hard to play properly and even my pro teacher, a jazz guy, stated how he preferred other horns.
So, seeing used Inderbinens quite regularly over here: would they also fit the bill of a modern Committee descendant? Yes, I know they are pricey, but the weird thing is they show up way more often than Schilke HC or Adams A9. Even the originals show up more often than those two.
Over the last year I’ve seen at least five Inderbinens and maybe three Committees (including a Kenosha) for sale but can’t recall a single A9 and maybe only one HC1. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2054 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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@Hermowiki: I have come across this a while ago. I don’t think I am a Botti fan, so I basically never listen to his music, but this is solid playing and probably much less engineering than usually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekWKr2zTlK8 _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:45 am Post subject: |
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I've heard him live a couple of times, and I found his live performances much more interesting than his recordings. The venue was an early 1900s opera house that has been restored, and the sound there is fabulous.
Anyway, at one point in one of the Botti shows, Chris asked the sound engineer to turn his mic off. The keyboard player moved to the piano, and the band played at a bit of reduced volume while Chris walked the aisle while playing, so he could hear what it sounded like in the audience. When he got back on stage, he commented about how great the room was. What I noticed was what a beautiful tone he had without the reverb.
My thought was that the reverb makes him commercially recognizable, sort of like Miles Davis with the mute, but that he's an excellent player with a very pleasing tone.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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onlyson Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Bartlett, Illinois
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Saw him live once in Milwaukee and yes, way too much reverb. He doesn't need it. Another ingredient in his sound is the use of a Bach 3 mouthpiece. It's very deep and open. Although his is reportedly a N.Y. era piece and likely very expensive these days, Bach still makes them. I found an early Elkhart period one on ebay for about $100. Felt like I overpaid a bit but it does help in getting closer to his sound. You might start with the mouthpiece as it's a cheaper option. Large bore Committees are like unicorns and very expensive. I was lucky enough to find mine on Craigslist. But it's kind of a bastard--a 1951 large bore deluxe with a handcraft bell. Would love to know how THAT happened, but the family I bought it from said it was mom's horn in high school and she was now 82 and couldn't remember anything about it. _________________ Del Quadro Grizzly
Yamaha 9335CH
1951 Martin Committee Deluxe #3 Bore
ACB Coppernicus
Couesnon Flugel
Carol Pocket Trumpet |
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J. Landress Brass Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 425 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Having been Chris' repair tech for the last almost 20 years I can shine a little light. Chris plays a Martin Handcraft Committee large bore. It has a standard bell flare at 4 7/8" and he has the braces from the valve section to the bell and leadpipe intentionally unsoldered. There are no modern or vintage horns that are equivalent to this model/ vintage trumpet. I had a copy a number of years ago for him with some minor changes in braces to give it my personal touch but tapers and slide dimensions are exactly the same. _________________ Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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BadHomreSure Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2020 Posts: 42
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: |
So, seeing used Inderbinens quite regularly over here: would they also fit the bill of a modern Committee descendant? Yes, I know they are pricey, but the weird thing is they show up way more often than Schilke HC or Adams A9. Even the originals show up more often than those two.
Over the last year I’ve seen at least five Inderbinens and maybe three Committees (including a Kenosha) for sale but can’t recall a single A9 and maybe only one HC1. |
Where are you finding these used Inderbinens? |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | @Hermowiki: I have come across this a while ago. I don’t think I am a Botti fan, so I basically never listen to his music, but this is solid playing and probably much less engineering than usually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekWKr2zTlK8 |
This is a 5 minute 33 second video. Chris is playing for only 41 seconds and he's playing with a Harmon mute. I'm wondering if anyone has a recording without a mute that hasn't been loaded up with reverb or with other engineering tricks so we can hear how Chris really sounds. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: |
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J. Landress Brass wrote: | Having been Chris' repair tech for the last almost 20 years I can shine a little light. Chris plays a Martin Handcraft Committee large bore. It has a standard bell flare at 4 7/8" and he has the braces from the valve section to the bell and leadpipe intentionally unsoldered. There are no modern or vintage horns that are equivalent to this model/ vintage trumpet. I had a copy a number of years ago for him with some minor changes in braces to give it my personal touch but tapers and slide dimensions are exactly the same. |
If I had to choose only one thing about TH that I really like, it’s information like the above, from guys Mr. Landress, who REALLY have accurate and definitive information.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Josh is the man, then!
Years back, I bought Chris Botti's Italia album on CD. It came with a DVD that showed "The making of" story. In it, he talks about his concept of sound as a commercial product, how his engineer "puts a haze around the sound." It takes the harshness out of the timbre and opens up trumpet music to a much wider audience (though, at the expense of the adoration of the trumpet community. I'm sure he cries over this every time he goes to the bank! )
I actually think Italia may be his best album. The video is endearing and the music has a much more natural texture than his other albums I own. I like to sit and really listen on headphones, earbuds or a good room or car stereo. The music was recorded in England in a refitted church/studio with stunning acoustics.
It appears that Chris played in a plexiglass booth with the live orchestra during each session, rather than use separate takes, at least on some of the tracks. Because of this, if one really listens, one can hear a more pure trumpet tone coming back from the room. The main trumpet mic has his signature engineered sound profile, but not the ensemble microphones. So, on tracks like Ave Maria and Nessun Dorma, his true tone is there in the background.
I don't know the difference between the bell of his Handcraft and that of a later Martin Committee, but when I was sent the 1956 Deluxe Large Bore to compare with a Kanstul 1603, that sound was there in those horns, too. I made a movie for myself, playing those trumpets, just to hear the differences and similarities. The in-camera mic of my DSLR picked up a little high-frequency fringe in the Kanstul tone, but otherwise the two sounded identical. My guess is that the newness of the Kanstul and its modern lacquer made most of that difference. I also recorded the same musical bit playing my Wild Thing, which had a noticeably different timbre. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2054 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:07 am Post subject: |
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@BadHomreSure: here you can find some current Inderbinen postings
https://www.eppstore-instruments.de/shop?kat=trompete _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | J. Landress Brass wrote: | Having been Chris' repair tech for the last almost 20 years I can shine a little light. Chris plays a Martin Handcraft Committee large bore. It has a standard bell flare at 4 7/8" and he has the braces from the valve section to the bell and leadpipe intentionally unsoldered. There are no modern or vintage horns that are equivalent to this model/ vintage trumpet. I had a copy a number of years ago for him with some minor changes in braces to give it my personal touch but tapers and slide dimensions are exactly the same. |
If I had to choose only one thing about TH that I really like, it’s information like the above, from guys Mr. Landress, who REALLY have accurate and definitive information.
Brad |
You got that right. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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irememberchet Regular Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 61 Location: Tecumseh, MI
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: Chris Botti Trumpet |
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As several have posted, Chris plays a 1939 Martin Handcraft Committee in the #3 large bore.
A large bore Martin Handcraft Committees in good playing condition are EXTREMELY RARE, but in my opinion, unequaled for that smooth, honey dipped, smoky, romantic sound that Chris is noted for.
I was fortunate several years ago to acquire a 1940 Martin Handcraft Committee in the #3 large bore that is identical to Chris Botti's horn, except his is a 1939. I had the horn meticulously restored by Tom Green, and my 1940 Martin Handcraft is in pristine condition - something that is extremely rare to non-existent for a large bore Handcraft.
I play my Martin Handcraft every day, and it is a beautiful instrument, but I never take it out on gigs because of the chance that it could be damaged or stolen. It is priceless to me, as I doubt if it could ever be replaced. However, I do take my Martin Handcraft to the recording studio, and have recorded with it for several years.
Of the more modern horns that are based on the Handcraft Committee, I have owned both the Adams A9 in the large bore, and the Schilke HC1 Handcraft that was based on Renold Schilke's 1939 original designs. I find the Schilke HC1 Handcraft to be the closest to my 1940 Martin Handcraft Committee, closer than the Adams A9. Both the Schilke HC1 and the Martin Handcraft Committees are .468 bore instruments. I have had my Schilke HC1 gold plated by Anderson, at it is a gorgeous looking and playing instrument. _________________ Richard Harris
Monette MF Prana
1940 Martin Handcraft Committee #3 Large Bore
Yamaha 8335 LA II Bergeron Custom
Yamaha 8340 EM Eric Miyashiro
Schilke Handcraft HC1
Taylor Phatboy Flugelhorn |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:44 am Post subject: |
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If you want to buy one of his personal trumpets, Josh Landress made him one that’s now for sale on his website. Go check it out. It’s an exact replica of his Committee. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2054 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Richard, I see you also play an X-13, a horn I like very much. I fully understand that it does not belong to the Martin Committee heritage and derivatives but having played it I do wonder if an X-13 would be able to produce that Committee sound? Or something close? _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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