The Bach Sound

[agroovin48]

There was a very interesting link on the forum discussion about the current Yamaha Xeno trumpet that went into the history of the development of that trumpet in it's various configurations. In the article it was disclosed that even though Reynold Schilke had been a major contributor to the development of the Yamaha trumpet, another influence interjected itself. That influence, I surmise, is the Bach influence since it was never named specifically.

I have two Yamaha trumpets that I love dearly. One is an early Xeno II RGS that was a special order, as the RGS was not a catalogued item at the time. The other is a Yamaha 8310Z. I love the sound of them both and have a hard time discerning which I like better. Then I also have a Bach LR19043B Mariachi.

Take note. My first good trumpet on my first come back at age 29 in 1977 was a Bach S18043. It was a fantastic trumpet and I can still hear the sound of it in my mind's ear. This current LR19043B is a different animal, but somewhere in it's soul it still presents me with that visceral Bach sound. Neither of the Yamaha's possess the ability to make this sound. It is something very subtle, very mesmerizing and very hard to describe. Maybe something like a cat's purring in the sound. Am I crazy or is this a real thing? How is it that Bach has this, and to my knowledge, none other?
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agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[improver]

As well made and playable as Yamaha trumpets are I could never get either the sound. Certainly Bach has a sound and it's in everyone of their horns. It's a beautiful thing a Chameleon with many colors. Not to say other horns arent good horns with good sounds. I just bought an Edwards X13 best horn I've ever played and I love t hr e sound. But i love the Bach sound.

[Jaw04]

No you're not crazy, to me it's like guitars. Despite the variety of amps, strings, pedals, picks, and effects processors, and custom pickups, there is still a big difference in sound between a Fender Strat and a Gibson Les Paul. There are differences between a Fender Mustang, Jaguar, Telecaster, and Stratocaster, but there is still sort of a Fender sound that is different from a Gibson. I think of Bach as being a Fender of the trumpet world. Fender Strats are notoriously finnicky with noisiness and intonation, not right for every scenario, and you can definitely design a more perfect guitar, but they have a special sound. Bachs the same. I play a horn that to me is a bit more efficient, precise, and less idiosyncratic, but cannot replicate the sound of a Bach. You need a Bach to sound like a Bach.

[SMrtn]

@Jaw04

That's an analogy I can understand. So, going with it - your analogy that is, which trumpet type would be your Les Paul, or better still, Gibson ES?

[agroovin48]

Thanks for the guitar references. They do resonate, pun intended, but let's get back to the Bach. I know there are many reference points. I had a Guild D55 that I preferred to a Gibson or a Martin and a Lowden F35 that beat them all, but this is a trumpet forum. Thanks again, it is so easy to stray when talking about the things we love and value the most.
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agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[Crazy Finn]

[SMrtn]

[cbtj51]

There has been much discussion by many people with credentials that seem to qualify them as experts regarding intrinsic sound profiles over many trumpet brands and models that are easy to identify but apparently not so easy to explain. I am not qualified regarding any of that.

The horns that I use on a regular basis are examples of Benge, Bach, and Yamaha. All have characteristics that appeal to me in ways that I can hear but can't explain. I utilize all of them because of those characteristics and each one presents something that the others don't. But even with that I still manage to sound, well, like me. Bottom line, at least from my viewpoint, is vive la difference or long live difference.

Mike
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'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces

[LittleRusty]

[blbaumgarn]

That is the great thing about any horn someone keeps and performs on, when they find that sound that they love or other qualities that they like in the horn's performance. I do believe in that "Bach" mystique. I also believe that Benge had its mystique and its followers. Same with Schilke. I used to play in a municipal band and for a few years this young lady who served as a Lutheran minister in the area played with band. She was a dedicated Bach gal and she had a wonderful sound when she played. The first time we switched horns for a couple selections in rehearsal when she was done she just said, "wow," that's different. Well, the Benge was maybe a little lighter and open, but similar to her 37. And that first time she played it she felt the difference. I also thought her horn "had that Bach sound." And that is worth it. I think Yamahas are wonderful and well made. I agree with the person who commented that they had 3 or 4 horns and had uses for them all. Golfers talk about that, saying there are "different horses for different courses."
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"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[Crazy Finn]

[Winghorn]

I think in general, Bach instruments sound the best.

But... I also think that Doc Severinsen sounds the best. And he has been able to produce his incredible sound on instruments other than Bach (although most have had some Bach characteristics).

Interesting, innit?

[Crazy Finn]

[SterlingBell]

I’ve played and owned Bach trumpets and cornets since 1968. Their sound and type of slotting fits me. That said, I played a Jupiter 1600i Roger Ingram trumpet and had to have it. It was so different from any of my Bach trumpets. It’s very precise in articulation and slotting, very direct in response. It almost plays itself. The only problem, it doesn’t have a warm sound that I can coax out of it. It’s a nice addition to my collection if I can figure out where to use it!

[GeorgeB]

It may well be just in my style of playing, but that sound for me is the two Selmers I own.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

[delano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEHGxpRoZQM&ab_channel=GertvanHoef

[tptptp]

That Bach sound always makes me cry.
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Craig Mitchell

[Vin DiBona]

Phil Smith on his Bach. Very likely his off the shelf 37. Even if it is on his C, that's a 229 Bach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37VY289QINI
This is absolutely as beautiful a sound as you will ever hear from anybody with any horn.

R. Tomasek

[LittleRusty]

Is the sound that Phil Smith, or insert your favorite Bach playing superstar, plays the reason for his sound? If so, does this mean that every Bach has that sound?

I don’t see a obvious connection myself.

[Vin DiBona]

In the right hands Bachs do have a particular sound. This is the sound Mr. Smith wanted and Bach made it possible for him to achieve it.
Vincent Bach was a genius and knew exactly what sound could and should come out of the bell and designed his bells and horns to make those sounds possible. His instruments are the most copied ever for a reason.
If you are a poor player, you will get a lousy sound out of every horn you play. A Bach isn't going to fix that.
Here is a reasonably accurate list of players and their horn combinations.
Quite a few on Bachs.
http://www.ojtrumpet.net/playerhorn/
R. Tomasek