Slotting top line F issue

[SpeedyGreed]

Hi all,

I've recently bought an old balanced Selmer - it's had a valve rebuild, and for the most part plays great.

However, I have been having an issue with top line F - and only this note. When I try to attack it in my usual way, it often sounds like I'm playing a grace note from the D below, and then rings flat/raspily. When I try to aim higher, I end up playing an A flat. Approaching it from the G above seems to help a bit, and it is possible to centre it, but it just feels like a really low-margin of error slot compared to all the other notes. Don't have this problem on my Bach 43.

Is this a feature of all Selmer 19As? Or is it just my horn? The valves should be alright one would think given they were replated/aligned by Will Spencer in the UK who has a good reputation. The leadpipe isn't 100pc smooth inside, but I don't see any outward signs of rot, I think it's some other buildup. I should add that the problem is worse when using a mouthpiece with the wrong gap - it seems a bit better (though not entirely) when using a pre k-mod Selmer Special 1, which is the only correct shank mouthpiece I own, but its a bit on the small side for me.

Anyway, just wondered if people have any advice, whether it's just something I need to get used to on this horn, or whether equipment tweaking/fixing is the answer.

Best,

Sam

[Goby]

Check the intonation with a tuner and see what the tendency of the instrument is (play the F and get into the center of the sound, and then check what the tuner says). Chances are, it tends to be sharp, so you're attacking the note a little on the low side, and the instrument is slotting a D rather than an F. My vintage Selmers have 1st slides that are shorter than a Bach.

[LadFree]

Have you tried getting the first slide out about a 1/4 inch
before playing the F?

[LittleRusty]

I have always struggled with that F on both of my Bb Bachs. One is a early 70’s vintage 180 37 and the other from the 90’s. James Becker worked some of his voodoo on my 90’s Bach and the issue went away.

It was not related to tuning nor to slide length. Since it was his trade secret I will not share what I think he did, but you can try contacting Osmuns.

Dick Akright looked at it earlier and thought it was a gap issue. Changing the gap, increasing it using paper wrapped around the shank of the mouthpiece, did seem to help but didn’t fix it completely.

[kehaulani]

Send it to Josh Landress or Charlie Melk.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[JayKosta]

I'd try some DIY adjustments to the 1st valve DOWN position alignment:

- unscrew the top valve cap slightly to reduce the amount of down travel
- unscrew the top valve button slightly to increase the down travel
These are just 'tests' and not a fix. If changing the alignment does seem to help, then changing some felts would be needed - can be DIY, or take to repair tech and show / explain exactly what you did that gave improvement.

Also check the seal of the water key on the tuning slide.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Richard III]

[Andy Cooper]

It might respond to an alignment change. I've had luck improving the flat D on my Benge that way.

One thing to check, however, is the area where the receiver changes to the leadpipe. If the leadpipe end of the receiver is smaller than the beginning of the leadpipe (it gets bigger right after the receiver) strange things can happen starting with F. Older Martin and Besson cornets had this problem.

Also if the beginning of the leadpipe has been accidentally reamed out introducing a cylindrical portion where there should be a taper, it can affect just one note around E or F but leave others OK.

I refuse to discuss how I know that.

[Joel Payne]

I've encountered this with every Bach I've owned, (Bbs, C), and also with my current Yamaha Xeno. (*Notoriously annoying with the initial note in Charlier No. 2) Have not run into it with any of my various Benges (Bbs or C), nor with my Yamaha D-Eb, nor even with a vintage Constellation 38B.

Couple of years ago, I asked a professional friend (Andrew Bishop, Principal, Des Moines Symphony) about this. He mentioned that many Bach design horns place this note a little high, so if your ear hears it where it 'should' be, you've got a good chance of slightly missing where the horn wants to put it. So, nowadays, when I need to enter on a top line F, I trigger the 1st valve slide about 1/8". Might just be tricking myself, but it seems to have helped.
_________________
Joel Payne

[Proteus]

[nieuwguyski]

Have you let another trumpet player (ideally, one whom you think is better than you) play the horn?
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[trickg]

[LittleRusty]

I struggled with the F during my college years. It wasn’t until years later I found out on TH that this is not uncommon.

It was a huge relief to find out it wasn’t just me

[SpeedyGreed]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Its good to know this isn't unique to me or this particular horn.

I've fiddled around with the felts a little (noticed the 1st valve one was a little thicker than the other two) and it has made it a little bit better.

Will try tweaking it some more, and otherwise may just have to get used tto pitching the F a tiny bit higher than I'm used to ok my other horn.

[LadFree]

Without really thinking back too deeply , I recall a few places where the top line F
could be a "Thing"..Offstage trumpet"Aida" and there was a unison F on the Broadway show "Cats" ..a stinger on 4 of some swing chart in that show where you didnt be the one to Kack

[LadFree]

Especially if you were subbing!![/img]