Chet Committee to Benge conversion

[kehaulani]

Thinking out loud. This is purely rhetorical so feel free to pass on by.

What adjustment in equipment (tuning slide, mouthpiece, etc.) would you make to a Benge 3X to strive for a Chet Baker-ish sound? Or would someone just wind up with a Frankenhorn that just can't do the trick?


I have a Committee which, for sure, is the true pathway. But I'm not sure I do enough playing anymore to justify having two trumpets, and I'm not a collector. And rankly, I've just never seen what the big deal about Committees is. This is my fourth.

I've had good luck with a MK/Drawing tuning slide on a Bach Commercial and one on a Yamaha Shew but somehow, I think this might be square pegging a round hole. Any thoughts?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[SilverSpunk]

[Halflip]

kehaulani, you must have too much time on your hands to come up with such twisted ideas! (Just kidding )

Actually, everyone says Chet managed to "sound like Chet" no matter what horn he played (Committee, Conn 38B, student Buescher, Bach), so . . . maybe you can save yourself some money? Or maybe just buy yourself a Bach 6B or 6C mouthpiece (I guess maybe Chet tried a Bach 10 1/2C for a while, too).

All in fun, all in fun.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"

[Halflip]

[SilverSpunk]

[plankowner110]

Mental concept of the sound and mouthpiece choice.
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

[Halflip]

[Ronnman]

kehaulani - While I am not familiar with the Benge horn receivers/gaps, I do know that my Committee’s receive gap is HUGE. The receiver depth is 1.954” and my average gap of my 21 mouthpieces is 0.941”. My two Martin mouthpieces (7 & 10) have gaps of 1.052” and 0.954” respectively. I can achieve that Committee smokey/slippery sound on both the Martin mouthpieces. These Martin mouthpieces seem to match up well with my Committee horn.
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

[shofarguy]

I wrote an article that began by describing the Martin Committee mystique. It was pretty polarizing, which was kind of the point of writing it. I remember my first exposure to a Committee. It was a medium bore version owned by our own Ed Mann. I was excoriated for writing that it didn't seem too different from my Benge 5X.

It was different, though. Just not as much as I thought it would be, in magnitude. It was in the subtleties, mostly. Those differences add up, though. I gave up trying to make it sound like a Martin and just made the Benge better at being a Benge.

Here are the things I tried. Some of them worked better than others.

1) Mouthpiece - At that time, I could try various Kanstul modular components for a week or two and return them, if I didn't want them. I tried the #3, #7 and #24 back bores. I thought the #7 was the best combination of rich tone, muted brilliance and "lyrical" slotting. Eventually, I bought a B3C Woody cup, because the wood was cool looking and was supposed to deaden a bit of that brilliance.

2) Valve clearances - Mine were really loose! It made the slotting ("Slotting!!?? We don't need no stinking slotting!) um..., sloppy. That was fine, until the valves got hopelessly sticky. Rebuilding them restored their action to a higher level than any piston instrument I've ever played, but tightened up said slotting to near Bach levels. Not bad, but not really Chet.

3) Bell - The #5 bell is the largest Benge bell. Nothing to do there, except find an old Martin or Holton 302 bell and hope for the best.

4) Slides - I hand picked a set of NOS large bore Benge slides and had them finished and plated by Kanstul. This probably did more to expand and darken the timbre of the horn than any other single thing. I tried to find a set of 4 slides that worked well together and gave the horn a homogenous timbre, but Flip Oakes felt that the horn no longer played evenly across its range.

5) Play a Wild Thing - All you old-timers have read the multitude of posts about my Wild Thing experiences. Can it do the Chet Thing? Probably, but not with me playing.

6) Play a 1603 or real 1956 Large Bore Martin Committee Deluxe - Yep, I tried them both for a few weeks. Together! These two trumpets were terrific. I got a clear view of why people value them so highly and, yes, there is a definite "Committee Sound." Alas, still no Chet.

Conclusion? "It's the Indian, not the arrow."

Jens Lindemann published a video some years back that featured Arturo Sandoval demonstrating how he could produce a huge variety of sound colors with just one trumpet and one mouthpiece. I figure that I might be able to somewhat emulate Chet Baker if I wanted to put in the work to discover how to do it, but for me it's not the sound that I love.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[kehaulani]

Whoa guys, you're making a quantum leap and I should've been more specific.

I would not replace any original equipment that cannot be immediately reversed. With a different tuning slide, I can just switch the old with the new and vice versa. Conversely, I cannot simply go back and forth with affixed bells or other affixed equipment.

My oversight, sorry!
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[kehaulani]

[Halflip]

[Jon Arnold]

Chet played softly and way up in the microphone especially at the end of his career. He also sounded better on his last few recordings on the Bach Strad he was playing at the time.

[lipshurt]

The quintessential Chet sound was in large part done with the conn 38B, and the Bach, and the buescher. I think there are more recordings of those three than the committee. On the committee he sounded great of course, but the others….
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[JonathanM]

I really like what MK can do with their slides, but no MK slide is going to do enough to make either of my Benge's (3X and 4X, S# 14XXX) lean toward that Chet-like sound. Both of my Benge's lean towards a very nice clear, pure trumpet tone... But neither sound smoky or dark.

Mouthpiece options can surely help, but again, that breathy sound isn't close to what my Benge's lean toward. I like the Curry VC (Vintage Cornet) for a somewhat breathy, warm sound on my cornets, and I've got a GR cornet-to-trumpet adapter which I just plugged into my Benge 4X... No one's gonna mistake me for Chet with this setup. However, I've got a Andrea Giuffredi model by CarolBrass; with it's big bell and the Curry VC mouthpiece - it's much closer.

Great question though, and glad you're thinking out loud... It does us all good to conjecture from time to time.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

[plankowner110]

[SilverSpunk]

You know, it might just be something to do with his teeth, I think he used the technique of pulling his front teeth/jaw back a little bit to get the slightly airy sound when he is playing slow ballads and then it completely changes when he player faster bop stuff like this,


Link



When he is playing ballads, you can notice that his embouchure seems to shift a little bit while he is playing, maybe he is constantly manipulating the airflow by using is bottom jaw,



Link

[kehaulani]

Can anyone identify this horn? Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[SilverSpunk]

[Halflip]