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Wesley
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Joined: 18 Oct 2023
Posts: 19
Location: NEW ORLEANS
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 Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:52 pm Post subject: Easy playing sweet musical tone trumpet. |
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Back in the 1960's I fell in love with several Benge Bb trumpets. I am looking for a used trumpet that has similar ease of blowing while presenting that beautiful Benge sound.
I play a French Selmer, Fabrique en France' we purchased used in the 1950's. The bore is .470 with a 4 7/8" bell. I like a Bach 1-1/2C mouthpiece.
Can anyone provide advice. For example benge vs schilke when they were building trumpets together in Chicago.
Last edited by Wesley on Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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What's wrong with another Benge?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
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falado
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 942
Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I’m selling a blueprinted Benge 6X in the marketplace, excellent horn. I’ve had CGs, a 3x and had the Burbank 5X MLP and my favorite has been the 6x, ease of blowing, big sound when needed. I’m doing more legit and using just one horn for everything these days, so the 6x sits in the case. It needs to be played. Check out Benges and Burbank. Great horns.
Can’t compare Benge and Schilke, very different horns. I’ve also had a B5 and an S22. You’d have to play them side by side.
Dave
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FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
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cbtj51
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Joined: 24 Nov 2015
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Location: SE US
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | What's wrong with another Benge? |
I must put my dos centavos in here as well:
I own and have owned and played many wonderful horns over the last 50+ years, but the Benge 5X in my signature has had a premier position in the lineup since the first time I connected with it in 1971. According to the 1971 Benge catalogue, the darker member of the family. I always found it a true chameleon depending only on my concept of its delivery purpose. Were I to have only one horn, it would be my Benge without a moments hesitation!
There are few great Benge trumpets in many configurations out there, some worth a serious consideration. The very best of those rarely come on the market, but when one does, don't hesitate (find the money)! falado's offer would be one that I would consider if I were looking!
Life is too Short for bad choices! Be particular!
Mike
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'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:12 am Post subject: |
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According to ACB reviews by Trent, this might be the one for you if a 3X+ would fill the bill.
https://www.coolisbac.com/benge
There's something about a Benge - even with intonation quirks - they seem to say "Hi honey - welcome home." |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7013
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Easy playing sweet musical tone trumpet. |
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| Wesley wrote: | Back in the 1960's I fell in love with several Benge Bb trumpets. I am looking for a used trumpet that has similar ease of blowing while presenting that beautiful Benge sound.
I play a French Selmer, Fabrique en France' we purchased used in the 1950's. I use a Bach 1-1/2C mouthpiece.
Can anyone provide advice. For example benge vs schilke when they were building trumpets together in Chicago. |
I used town a 1976 Benge 5X, which I loved. In the past year or two, I was able to sample two models of Shires CVLA series trumpets: the Large bore and Extra-large bore models. They were both excellent and brought to mind the Benge trumpets I've played over the years.
The CVLA-L has a .462" bore and has nicely precise slotting (it's extremely easy to hit the note you want) without feeling stiff in response. In fact, it is very agile handling. The horn I played was quite uncanny in the way it could breeze through technical passages while feeling free and unhindered.
The CVLA-XL has a .464" bore and is similar in feel to a vintage Benge 3X+, which I imagine was their target. It plays with slightly less brilliance and somewhat looser slotting, so it is easier to fade pitches and create lyrical melodic lines.
Shires horns are well built and pretty easy to acquire through their dealer network. And they are brand new.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Joel Payne
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Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have several Benges. I continue to gravitate to my 2X, so my 1973 Benge 3X+ (silver plate, 1st valve trigger) is available - if you're in the market.
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JHirakawa
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Joined: 11 Mar 2022
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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If you are looking for something that is easy to play with a sweet tone, and you are willing to try something different. I would recommend an older model Conn 22b or a older Buescher. I have a 1947 Conn 22b and a 1942 Buescher 205. Both are very easy to play. The Conn has a beautiful tone and could be used for just about anything. The Buescher is dark and smokey, almost like a cornet. The Conn is raw brass and lacquer on the Buescher is ugly, but they are both straight, without dents, and have very nice valves. I paid $100 for the Conn and $300 for the Buescher. Not exactly a Benge or a Committee, (and mine are really nice ones), but they sound great, are fun to play, and were dirt cheap.
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'45 Martin Committee
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'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
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Wesley
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Joined: 18 Oct 2023
Posts: 19
Location: NEW ORLEANS
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:06 pm Post subject: Burbank Benge |
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I have not heard a trumpet that sounds like the Benge does, especially the Burbank and some LA benges.
True, you have to try them. I remember getting three or four in New Orleans and three of us would try them out and each would be substantially different. Our trumpet professor, George Jensen, Loyola University would listen. One might blossom compared to the rest, in my opoinion.
Several time I almost purchased one, but never did. Now I will if The right trumpet shows up. If a trumpet is similar, please let me know. I haven't played in over 53 years.
Wesley |
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Rwwilson
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Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 188
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I may be wrong but I think the Kanstul 1000 and 1001, the 1001 having the larger bore, were close, modern copies of the Benge horns. |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you want an easy playing sweet musical tone trumpet:
Long Tones
Cichowicz Long Tones
Concone
Charlier
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1928
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Burbank Benge |
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| Wesley wrote: | | I haven't played in over 53 years. |
If you haven't played in over 53 years, even the Benges you fell in love with back in the 60's might not meet your memory-enhanced expectations now. Time is the traitor*.
*Title of a very apt short story by Alfred Bester.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Wesley
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Joined: 18 Oct 2023
Posts: 19
Location: NEW ORLEANS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:42 am Post subject: I haven't played in over 53 years. |
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Halflip,
I understand and am seeking some general suggestions.
Thank you,
Wesley |
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Halflip
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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One of the sweetest sounding, most responsive horns out there is the Conn New York Symphony Special. These were limited production horns, essentially the Conn Model 22B (called at the time the "New York Symphony" model) but pulled off the production line to be carefully hand made.
They are a small bore horn with wonderful valve action, an exquisite sound and artistic engraving all the way up the bell. Mine is from 1939. This is not a horn you choose to play in any particular type of ensemble. It is a horn that makes you smile. A truly great horn and a collector's item. In good condition they run about $1,000.
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Wesley
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Joined: 18 Oct 2023
Posts: 19
Location: NEW ORLEANS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:12 pm Post subject: HELP! |
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Halflip,
Thank you. I only know back when, Kings' were considered more intermediate trumpets. The only pro horns I was aware of were Bach, Bench, Schilke, and the French Besson and it's copies, e.g. French Selmer.
Wesley |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Go down this list and find how many professional players played King.
https://www.scribd.com/document/354582573/Player-Horn-Combinations
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Halflip
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Posts: 1928
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! |
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| Wesley wrote: | | I only know back when, Kings' were considered more intermediate trumpets. The only pro horns I was aware of were Bach, Bench, Schilke, and the French Besson and it's copies, e.g. French Selmer. |
Well, your information is incomplete. "Back when" (back to the 20's, actually), the King Liberty trumpet was one of the finest pro trumpets available -- right up there with the Conn 22B. The later King Super 20 was favored by the likes of Harry James. The King Silver Flair was favored by Dizzy Gillespie, Conte and Pete Candoli, etc., and the Golden Flair from the mid 70's was designed with the help of Pete Candoli and used by him professionally.
If you open the link to the list of player/horn combinations provided by kehaulani, you will find (by my count) 31 different professional players who used King trumpets and cornets.
If you open the link to the King Golden Flair for sale and read the full description provided by the vendor (especially the paragraph immediately following the embedded video), you will see that it is a top quality professional horn.
I am a bit mystified by your posts -- you say you are looking for suggestions, and then when you receive sincere suggestions in good faith, you shoot them down based on flawed information and limited knowledge.
Do some research.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! |
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| Wesley wrote: | Halflip,
Thank you. I only know back when, Kings' were considered more intermediate trumpets. The only pro horns I was aware of were Bach, Bench, Schilke, and the French Besson and it's copies, e.g. French Selmer.
Wesley |
Wayne Bergeron was at my house and tested my 1933 King Silvertone. Willie Murillo was there, too, and Wayne looked at Willie and said, "This plays like a modern horn."
Lots of H.N. White made King trumpets were pro level horns.
Also, for the vast majority of players playing a good "student level" or "intermediate level" (whatever that means) horn in good working condition doesn't yield objective results for that particular player significantly different compared to that player playing the most advanced "professional level" horn.
So, for an average player it doesn't make any significant difference. The "professional level" horn might have a tiny bit more even scale and you might like the valves and sound a little better but you'll still sound and perform about the same as you do on a good "student level" horn in good working condition.
It's mostly about perception and, although perception can be important to a player, Wynton would play and sound like Wynton on a 1950's Olds Ambassador in good working condition, it would be almost impossible to identify which horn he was playing in a blindfold test, especially on a recording where the sound undergoes engineering.
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HERMOKIWI |
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