40s vs 60s Olds Super

[Phoenix864]

I've been playing a 60s Super for the past year for commercial/jazz stuff and been really enjoying it. Recently, a 40s Super has popped up locally. I've heard lots of good things about the earlier Supers and how they're even better than the later versions, so the horn's got me interested.

I could probably sell my 60s Super for $500 without much issue and can likely get the 40s for $800, maybe less. From the description it's in good shape with reasonable compression, but had the lacquer stripped at some point.

I'd appreciate any advice regarding the value of making the swap to the older Super - are the earlier horns 'better' enough to be worth the time and cost of doing a swap?

[Brassnose]

Just had a very similar discussion with my teacher yesterday: in both our experience the major difference between modern and vintage horns is the individual state of the specimen. If a 40s horn has been well maintained it may be a gem. If not, maybe not so much.

Moreover, the build differences/tolerances between vintage horns of the same make and model may be larger than, say, between two new Yamahas. Simply because modern manufacturing is generally more precise. So,having played a great vintage horn of some type may not necessarily mean that all horns of the same type play the same.

Not very helpful, I know.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[krax]

If you feel that your 60's Super has a somewhat laser-beam-like sound, then you won't find it in the 40's Super. It will be similar, but not that focused-concentrated. Instead, it will be lighter, with more of ballet-like elegance. The entire horn will feel lighter (they are lighter) and more versatile.

At least that was my experience, comparing a Super from '67 with one from '46 and one from '42. I prefer the older version with its thinner brass.

[Louise Finch]

[Brassnose]

While I understand Louise about not selling a horn you like, I also understand the wish to not hoard trumpets (or anything, really). I usually go the other way around: I see a horn I’m interested and - finances allowing - I purchase it (or make an appointment for a play test). Then I play it for awhile, compare it to my other horns and only then, after having time to compare for quite some time I decide on who to sell. My personal theory is that at some point - with always keeping the horns that suit me best and selling the others - I’ll end up with the perfect horn for me (some horns will not be for sale in spite of my smart theory ).
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Phoenix864]

Thanks for all the advice. The projection and intensity I can get out of the 60s Super are some of the things I like most about the horn. It still sounds like the 40s Super is worth taking a look at.

As far as selling before buying something else, I'm trying not to become a trumpet hoarder, but I find these vintage instruments very interesting and enjoyable to play. It's hard to resist taking a look at these less-common vintage horns when they occasionally pop-up locally.

[Rogerrr]

I have some of the same 40s vs 60s Super ideas in my head...I have a 60s one now and curious about the 40s Super

I'm in the DC area too, but don't worry....I won't snap up any local 40s Supers
....not for a while anyway
_________________
Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player )

[jeirvine]

If you haven't read through Centex Brass' Super Evolution page, it's a very thorough documentation of the changes to the Supers over time. The main difference is in the weight - they went to a heavier brass about 1947, SN ~19000.

https://centexbrass.com/superevolution

I have a '40, and a '46 Super and love them both. The '46 has the brass tone ring and I would give it a little edge, if I had to pick one.

I've not played a 60's Super, but have had both a '46 and '63 Super Cornet. I very much preferred (and kept) the '46, which is also a brass tone ring model.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37

[HERMOKIWI]

I have a 1947 Super with the brass tone ring. It's in the 21,XXX serial number range. It is an extremely light weight horn, probably the lightest weight horn I own. The Supers became a lot heavier in later years. The examples with brass tone rings were not made for very long and are especially rare.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

[Louise Finch]

[stuartissimo]