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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:13 pm Post subject: Are there school band directors like Whiplash's Fletcher? |
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Wondering if there are actually over-the-top directors like Terence Fletcher in school programs? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
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stumac Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 697 Location: Flinders, Australia
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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1947 the band was reformed in the country town where I lived, I was invited to join the band as were most of the kids in the town, I was given a Tenor Horn and we had lessons before the main band rehearsal.
I sat in the front row on 3rd tenor in front of the conductor, often his stick would come heavily on my stand and told to "Blow it, not suck it" as a shy 9 year old this did not inspire confidence.
Regards, Stuart. |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2198 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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i hear that Terence Fletcher sells insurance now
we are Farmers
dun ta da dun dun dun tun dun _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:12 am Post subject: |
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I haven't seen the movie, but my band director was briefly suspended for shoving the football mascot. The assistant band director started spending a lot of time with a senior, and left his wife for her after the student graduated. Band can have so much drama.
That said, I have huge respect for the band directors. 100 kids and every one of them has an instrument that can play louder than you can speak. It's kind of a miracle that band directors can teach in such an environment. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:14 am Post subject: |
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During my childhood ( I am 85 ) schools didn't have bands. I had to attend a music conservatory to get my grounding, and the professor who taught brass playing was a horrible person. It didn't seem right to me to have to pay someone to teat you like a doormat so I found a profession al trumpet player who gave lessons and it was the best thing I could have done.
But in the area I am currently living, just about every school has a band program and I rub shoulders with some of the directors, and to me, they are unsung heroes. Many of their students play in the same band as I do today and they are damn good players who still have great admiration for those music directors who taught them. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5682 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:33 am Post subject: |
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We had a director in my hometown who had a propensity for putting his hands on kids who gave him any kind of backtalk or attitude.
Part of the issue is that he was a VERY successful band director - the high school band was very good when he came - 70ish kids in a high school of around 200 kids - but he turned it into a 100+ student powerhouse that was untouchable in 4 states.
I witnessed a couple of things first hand in my 5th and 6th grade class. He gave an instruction to a friend of mine, and my friend started to say something in return, and in a flash he'd waded through the 1st two rows of the band and was in my friend's face. He ruled his band program with an iron fist.
He knocked around a few kids - threw one kid up against the band office wall, kicked another kid, etc - a number of incidents here and there - parents weren't happy about it, but the band kept bringing home trophies and the band was good. He left after my 6th grade year, but I knew some people who had him as a high school teacher, and they said that going to regional honor bands was a letdown because what they were doing every day in the school band was better than what the honor bands were doing.
I know there was some drama over his departure from our school - I don't know if the school threatened to fire him because he kept laying his hands on the kids, or if he left on his own because he didn't feel like had the support of the school board, (a few board members weren't happy that "The Pride of the Longhorns" was the marching and and not the football team) but he left.
These days there would have been no tolerance for that at all, but this was the late 70s and early 1980s, and corporal punishment was still kind of a thing - it was still allowed up through 1988 in Nebraska. This was also at a time when if you got in trouble at school, you'd get in worse trouble at home.
He eventually went into administration, but while he was still teaching band, every band program he led turned into a powerhouse. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:11 am Post subject: |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote: | I haven't seen the movie, but my band director was briefly suspended for shoving the football mascot. The assistant band director started spending a lot of time with a senior, and left his wife for her after the student graduated. Band can have so much drama.
That said, I have huge respect for the band directors. 100 kids and every one of them has an instrument that can play louder than you can speak. It's kind of a miracle that band directors can teach in such an environment. |
It's kind of like if Sgt. Hartman from Full Metal Jacket became a conservatory jazz band director.
That business with your assistant director sounds messed up. Any idea if they're still together? I've always heard that band directors and PE coaches are statistically the most likely to get in trouble horsing around with a student. There was a band director in my area who left suddenly, the rumor is he was canoodling with a student. I didn't have firsthand knowledge but it seems like there's frequently some truth to such rumors and this guy seemed like he was a bit "off", wouldn't surprise me at all. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uberopa Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 932 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I had the good fortune of playing for a high school conductor that was prone to shouting and throwing various missiles like pencils and broken batons in our general direction. Even so, he was beloved by students.
I played in a community band that took the place of a school music program. The conductor was a.retired RCN trumpet player. He was one of those classical characters who would conduct with a baton in his left hand and a cornet in his right. His favourite saying was "I wish you were all professional players. Then I could fire you!" Equally beloved by one and all he was awarded the Order of Canada medal for his service in promoting live music in the community.
I played in a cadet bugle band and the bandmaster was unimpressed by my efforts. This smooth faced Irishman with the thickete brogue in the RCAF appeared beside me while I was playing. He hissed in my ear "Jaysus Christ, Smout. On a clear day a bugle can be heard three fecking miles away. Three fecking miles!" Needless to say I redoubled my efforts. Equally beloved by the band.
I suspect that musicians are closet masochists. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I had two H.S. band directors. One was fine. The other a little martinet. He went to the Ernest Williams School of Music and evidently was impressed by his director's heavy handed approach. Real old school.
One day, for example, he threw a fit over the trombones. He reached behind him at the chalk board, grabbed an eraser, and launched it into the section on the other side of the room. Another time, I saw him slap one of the female flag twirlers on her face.
I don't like bullies, sexists or racists. No place for them in education, regardless of award-winning results. These are young, impressionable people. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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Last edited by kehaulani on Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:12 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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I had a junior high band director who was a tyrant. He was abusive (verbally, not physically). I was the lead trumpet and he seemed to take particular delight in yelling at me for the mistakes of the others in the section. He was simply a loud mouthed bully with a mean streak. He took all the fun out of playing music. Really, he wasn't all that different from the guy in the movie.
He also used to bring whiskey to school in a thermos bottle. I suspect that he had a serious problem with alcohol.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
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King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
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Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Didymus Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Posts: 306 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Are there school band directors like Whiplash's Fletcher |
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Robert P wrote: | Wondering if there are actually over-the-top directors like Terence Fletcher in school programs? |
Nowadays? I doubt it. In the past I can see how some school band directors came close.
Despite J.K. Simmons's brilliant performance..... it won him the Oscar for best supporting actor that year..... I felt there was an unrealistic aura around the character. Unless the character's behavior slowly escalated over the years, and what the audience watched was the downfall of a magnificent bastard who finally made his fatal error, I doubt that such a teacher at any level lasts long. Such a person would not command any real loyalty from his students or respect from his peers. I'm not even sure he could make it as a professional musician unless he was an absolute master of his craft.
I read that the character was partially inspired by Buddy Rich, who relished a tough guy persona. I don't think Rich did things like throw cymbals at his band, drive protégés to suicide, throw good players out of a band simply because they quailed. Then there was the level of vindictiveness, absolute evil, in Terence Fletcher's heart, on full display when he tried to ruin Andrew Neiman's career. IMO, we only see things like that in Hollywood movies.
Whiplash is a fun movie to watch if you're into outrage-revenge stories. Simmons is great at playing characters with a mean streak. (Superhero movie fans consider him to be the quintessential J. Jonah Jameson.) He certainly drove his performance as Fletcher right over the top, though. _________________ Enjoy the journey. |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Not anymore. Being abusive is taken very seriously in all spheres of public life these days. There are no more Bobby Knights that I know of. I didn't think the movie was very good, realistic, or relevant. |
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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's an alright movie to watch but it doesn't make my top 100 list. Over the years I've played for band-directors that should have been teaching wood-working but even in the '60's/'70's my experience was with professional (realistic) directors. |
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khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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The character was so unrealistic that it ruined the movie for me....and I really like JK Simmons. If I had a high school or college band director who got in my face or actually put his hands on me, I'd tear him a new a**hole really quickly. And I certainly wouldn't play in his stupid band no matter how many competitions he won.
If I was a parent and heard about a professor or band director who I was paying treating students like that I'd see that he was fired. If the school didn't want to fire him because of his award winning record, they'd find themselves in court.
There's nothing wrong with discipline and high standards, but it doesn't require screaming and physical abuse to maintain either of them.
Keith |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: |
That business with your assistant director sounds messed up. Any idea if they're still together? |
I don't know. I moved away a long time ago. The assistant director was someone who always looked depressed.
It is funny that it's pretty much coaches and band directors who are known as "yellers." I'm sure a lot of it is situational (controlling too many kids in open spaces with lots of equipment).
My band program was good, but it definitely would not pass muster now. Marching band did some amount of hazing and our director would also do a year end speech with lots of double entendres. I don't watch the national programs much, but changes at OSU and DCI both reflect the ways that band culture is changing, I think for the good. Many times charismatic leadership is inspiring, but it's also often dysfunctional. |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:20 am Post subject: |
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It's probably good as an (exaggerated) example of what can happen when applying the 'drill sergeant' style of teaching. For some, it can be a great motivational tool to get them to do things they didn't think they were capable of. For others, it can be a good way to tear them down completely. And it's not just physical abuse that's a problem, verbal abuse can have an even bigger impact. Those that teach this way should be aware when to back down, or it can have lasting repercussions.
kehaulani wrote: | I don't like bullies, sexists or racists. No place for them in education, regardless of award-winning results. These are young, impressionable people. |
Well said. |
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Dave_3 Regular Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 64 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I don't know what movie everyone is talking about, but...
In elementary school, our band teacher/director seemed like every other teacher to me. No better or worse. But for some reason, all the girls in our band, hated her guts. They thought she (the teacher) was a total witch. One day, before the teacher came in to the classroom, the girls got up and said something like: "OK, if she says one smart ass remark today, then we all (everyone in the class) agree to get up and walk out of class. Right?"
I was lost, and thinking, huh, what are we talking about? Don't think any of the other boys knew what was going on, either. LOL
Anyway, nothing happened, and no one walked out, but I never did understand why the girls all hated our teacher so much. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Dave_3 wrote: | I don't know what movie everyone is talking about, |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDAsABdkWSc _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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area51recording Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 480
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:35 am Post subject: |
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When I was a senior in high school (1974-75) our band director quit over the summer for another gig in the district. Up until that point we had a VERY successful band, we won competitions every year, even going to Dublin and Limerick Ireland when I was a sophomore for international competition around St Patrick's Day and placing 2nd and 1st, respectively. The guy they hired was fresh out of college, so maybe 22 or 23. In order to make his transition easier they also hired this woman who had been working for corps in DCI. Her style made R Lee Ermey look like Fred Rodgers. The end for me came when during one field practice she literally got nose to nose with me, shreiking at the top of her lungs. I simply told her that, in my opinion, this kind of treatment was unacceptable for a frikken' high school band and walked off. After that it was concert band and jazz band for me only.....interesting side note, the band director and the drum majorette hooked up, and eventually got married and had a child. Thing is, he was 23 and she was 18, so it wasn't a legal situation, but it WAS something you can't do from an ethics point of view, so he lost the gig...... |
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Dave_3 Regular Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 64 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I'm glad I missed that one. Don't think I could ever enjoy a movie like that. Drama is not my thing. I prefer the happy, fun movies. |
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