Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:15 pm Post subject: Course of study for starting 10yo
What are opinions about a beginning young trumpet player in terms of methods. I know there are several out there, and don’t know the merits of any over others. I grew up using the Rubank method books which I still consider very good.
While I am a musician, I’ve had no formal trumpet training. I plan to work with my son side by side learning together.
So, Rubank or delve into the mysteries or these Mendez/Callet/Gordon/Caruso/Reinhardt et al schools of thought???
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3307 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:37 pm Post subject:
My opinion is that many trumpet 'method books' are NOT designed or capable of teaching someone 'how to play' - they seem to mostly be collections of exercises to be practiced. The exercises do progress in difficultly from beginner ability upward.
Those books are designed to be used in conjunction with a capable teacher who can help the student learn the basics of how to play, and then monitor and adapt the exercises as the student progresses.
It is very important to get good early training about the proper way to play notes - primarily about using face muscles, lips, teeth, jaw, breathing, blowing, etc. It is very common that developing players do OK for a while 'doing it wrong', but then reach a point where they cannot get better because their basic 'foundation techniques' are inadequate.
It is possible to learn by diy, but would require a well written 'instruction book' and very good understanding and application of those instructions.
Maybe somebody can suggest such a book. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
The best thing to do is to get that young player a teacher. The sooner the better. Good and bad habits both develop early. In that regard, the best method is whatever method the teacher works from.
That said, the best method I have come across is Harold "Pappy" Mitchell's "Mitchell on Trumpet" (aka The Harold Mitchell Trumpet Method). It goes from beginner to the very advanced level in a series of progressive lessons. Another good method is the sequence "Getting Started Right" and then "The Developing Trumpet Player" by Bill Knevitt.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:53 pm Post subject:
This is just personal, but I believe Callet, Reinhardt, Caruso are Systems, which I do not believe a beginner should worry themselves about. I believe a good grounding in fundamentals is the point, and not being distracted with theories of pedagogy.
100 Progressive Lessons for Trumpet for the Beginning or Comeback Player
by David Hickman, is also an excellent choice.
LINK
The Hickman moves more slowly. Which is most compatible with your son depends on him. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1531 Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:28 pm Post subject: Young kid and trumpet
Hello all,
As a retired band director, I would wait until the summer before the band program starts in schools. Most schools I know of don't have the schedule to place advanced players in higher groups, thus there would be a chance that he would not be challenged and would not want to continue. At 10, i would focus on the mechanics of proper technic, with note reading coming when he is ready. There would be a lot of rote learning, tobe production and just handling the instrument. If he is a slight kiddo, a cornet would be a starting point. Three and five note songs are abundant in the first year books, and could be taught in small sections. It all depends on the ability to focus and aptitude. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976
When you do get him a teacher, make sure it's not one of those 'moar air' dudes, but rather someone who can actually teach proper trumpet technique, in a way that's suitable for young children. In my experience a poor teacher can do just as much harm to overall playing as not having a teacher at all. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:35 am Post subject:
Is your kid in a band program also? The beginner band books are solid and are the type of music that's good for kids. The first year books usually teach 3-4 scales + a lot of different simple tunes.
I have a kid the same age and in 8+ months he's made good progress. We split our time between band book, basic exercises (some of the Arbans that stays on the staff, the first line of Collin, scales), and enrichment, which might be simple duets, tunes from online, etc.
I like Rubank, and if your kid has the patience, that's a fine direction. For me, I also know my kid, so I often encourage short practice sessions, showing different videos, etc. I also try to encourage motivation. In this case I said, "at your school you basically have to do music the next eight years, and it will be more fun if you're good at your instrument than bad at it."
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:40 am Post subject:
Get a feel for the child's style of learning. When I was that age, they handed me the trumpet and the Rubank books. In one year I was asked to play in a High School pit band because their players were having problems with the part. I didn't do it but the music didn't look that hard.
I'm a "hand me a book of how to" and away I go for anything to learn. Your child may be that or a "hold your hand" every step of the way.
The worst thing for children is a "one size fits all" method. _________________ Richard
A beginner needs learn notes/rhythms/etc., basic musicianship (ear, singing, what their instrument should sound like), and to enjoy honking on an instrument.
Beginner methods should be fun, teach notes and rhythms, and be musical and singable. Beyond that, it doesn’t really matter which one you use. Trumpet-centric concepts can be gently introduced, but growing a musician is far more important than filling their heads with conceptual trumpet technique.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Course of study for starting 10yo
Diffin wrote:
What are opinions about a beginning young trumpet player in terms of methods. I know there are several out there, and don’t know the merits of any over others. I grew up using the Rubank method books which I still consider very good.
While I am a musician, I’ve had no formal trumpet training. I plan to work with my son side by side learning together.
So, Rubank or delve into the mysteries or these Mendez/Callet/Gordon/Caruso/Reinhardt et al schools of thought???
Probably any beginning method is fine to get started. To make good progress he needs to practice a lot. A good teacher is important - he's not going to get what he needs to excel just playing in band. There are a wide range of skills to be worked on that just can't be addressed in a band rehearsal setting even if the band director were competent to do so.
It can be hard to know who a good teacher is. Ideally someone who really understands embouchure mechanics - there are a lot of people who hang out a shingle as a teacher including faculty members at schools who are great at assigning exercises but aren't that aware when it comes to embouchure issues.
Once he gets any kind of a handle on tone production and playing notes off a page make sure he works on scales and exercises in the keys he learns. Partial scales if he doesn't have the range yet to play all of them at least an octave. I'm amazed at how many kids are in band programs that only know a couple of scales and that more band directors don't encourage their players to study privately.
I have a cousin who ran an award-winning high school orchestra program - all of their students study privately.
An example I've posted in here before of an elementary school brass band from Japan that would put a lot of college ensembles to shame. An example of what's possible with dedication. I guarantee they all study privately. I'm amazed by their rock-solid intonation among other things.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:48 pm Post subject:
Robert, it would not surprise me if a Japanese music teacher would be knowledgeable on all the instruments. That the kids wouldn't necessarily get that level of instruction only from instrument-specific teachers. I'm not saying they don't, just that I wouldn't assume that they do.
While there are many good music programs in America, the Japanese work-ethic is very different from what American kids are generally exposed to. (Or receptive to.) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Robert, it would not surprise me if a Japanese music teacher would be knowledgeable on all the instruments. That the kids wouldn't necessarily get that level of instruction only from instrument-specific teachers. I'm not saying they don't, just that I wouldn't assume that they do.
While there are many good music programs in America, the Japanese work-ethic is very different from what American kids are generally exposed to. (Or receptive to.)
Knowledgeable as in having an intimate familiarity with the instrument over a number of years - worked through some chops problems themselves, etc. is different and not typical of American band directors. And even if they are they just don't have the time to give individual lessons to every kid in their program.
My cousin I mentioned above plays violin and viola professionally, cello as well I believe but students in her program had private instructors. There's no way she could do more than give spot tips to several orchestras full of students. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:12 pm Post subject:
Frankly, Arban's has a lot of material that can be used for teaching someone at that age (and will last them a LONG time), but the trick with students that young is getting them motivated. _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces.
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:48 pm Post subject:
On the Japanese model, private tutors help, but so does starting piano or violin at age 5, having music regularly in public school from grade 1 on, and being in a culture with a really strong classical orientation. There are drawbacks also, and living in the general region I know a lot of people who "used to be" amazing but haven't played since elementary school, because from middle school on they were focused on exam preparation or starting 12 hour/day jobs. It wouldn't surprise me if Japanese teachers aren't more specialized earlier on music either. My kid has a pianist teaching band who is pretty okay on all of the instruments, but in the US music ed is a liberal arts degree, whereas in Japan probably all of your courses are in music.
On Arbans, there are exercises that kids can do, but it's surprising how few exercises there are that stay on the staff. My experience is it takes about six months to be solid from low C to middle C, and then it an also take some time to get steady on D-G (possible in the first year, but not the norm). The beginner band books really are pretty good for working up progressively and introducing scales and musical nomenclature (which also takes a while: whole note vs half note, dynamics, accidentals, etc.).
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Course of study for starting 10yo
Diffin wrote:
So, Rubank or delve into the mysteries or these Mendez/Callet/Gordon/Caruso/Reinhardt et al schools of thought???
Most exercises are conceptually beyond beginner and intermediate trumpet players. If they can't hear a problem or articulate it then assigning them a laundry list of stuff is a waste of everyones time.
you should be thinking in terms of band books, get the essential elements or some equivalent. I would get at least half way through before I would introduce anything else, but given how young this student is it could take you 2 years to get through that book. the goal should be make it fun and get a free sound. Elicit changes and concepts via demonstration and in terms of sound.
Supplement a 1 octave C major and chromatic scale when needed.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:51 pm Post subject:
Billy B wrote:
Just play songs
Billy, you reminded me.
There was a booklet called Armed Forces Song Folio that the military put out monthly and my dad would grab one for me each month. I played a lot of standards and pop hits. First some long tones, a few scales and a few exercises, then songs. Nice memory. Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:38 am Post subject:
kehaulani wrote:
Billy B wrote:
Just play songs
Billy, you reminded me.
There was a booklet called Armed Forces Song Folio that the military put out monthly and my dad would grab one for me each month. I played a lot of standards and pop hits. First some long tones, a few scales and a few exercises, then songs. Nice memory. Thanks.
Ps....school band methods (Essential Elements, Traditions of Excellence, etc) don't really do a great job for any instrument. Some things move too fast with not enough reinforcement, some things get introduced and never touched on again, sometimes there is a random jump in difficulty, etc. So, if I were teaching a kid privately I would avoid those. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!
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