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Mr. Bubbles
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject: Rice University Reply with quote

So I'm heading into my senior year and I'm planning on going into trumpet performance and I have been looking at the best colleges for trumpet students. Obviously there are schools like the top conservatories that I simply can't get into because they only accept like 2 undergrads a year. And then there are schools like Northwestern that I simply don't have the money or grades or test scores to get into. And there are schools like UNT and U of I that are also great and I believe I have the grades and test scores and music talent to get into. But I stumbled across Rice University and it would be a bit of a reach for me but I think it could be a possibility. But I know almost nothing about the professors there. From the looks of it Barbra Butler and Charlie Geyer have an impressive resume but I simply know nothing about them. Has anyone had experience working with them?
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Mr. Bubbles
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Rice University Reply with quote

Also any other suggestions of great colleges with great trumpet studios would be appreciated.
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coraltrpt
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rice is regarded by many as the finest trumpet school in America. Barbara and Charlie have mentored a long line of top-tier orchestral trumpet players. I’ll leave the rest to other posters.
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trahmput
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you start listing all of the major orchestras in America, which have 3 or 4 trumpet positions, you will find that they all have Barbara and Charlie students in them. Chicago-2 (was 3); NY-3; SF-3; LA-2; SLSO-3; Boston-3 I think; and so on and so on. They are the most in demand trumpet professors in the country, if not the planet. The studio at Rice is small, and they accept 1 or 2 students a year.
I say this not to discourage you from applying there, but just to put in perspective that Rice is in fact probably the most difficult school to get into for trumpet. But if you get in, you get to study with 2 of the greatest teachers of all time. So go for it!!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rice is outstanding but I believe it doesn't have the equal emphasis on commercial music as, e.g. UNT and others. Do you want to specialize in classical?
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Mr. Bubbles
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Rice University Reply with quote

Kehaulani, after bouncing the idea in my head around a lot I have decided to put my focus into classical trumpet playing. No matter what I'm going to love playing music as a career, but the bonus of actually having a steady job in an orchestra is very appealing. And it's much easier to convince my parents to pay for me to go to college knowing that I will have a plan once I get out. They will be more supportive if I tell them orchestra x, y, and z have auditions, I'm going to apply and audition after I graduate or maybe even while I'm still in school, rather than, well hopefully I have enough connections to be able to have sustainable work. I'm not even sure if that's how commercial playing works but that's ok. And I don't mean this to sound like I don't want to be an orchestral trumpet player, I really do!
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Rice University Reply with quote

Mr. Bubbles wrote:
So I'm heading into my senior year and I'm planning on going into trumpet performance and I have been looking at the best colleges for trumpet students. Obviously there are schools like the top conservatories that I simply can't get into because they only accept like 2 undergrads a year.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Rice is one of those studies that only accepts a small number every year.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out MD college Park, Peabody, and Curtis as well. College park isn't terribly hard to get into and has a great teacher in Chris Gekker. Peabody is a great school with PSO faculty and is in need of good trumpets. Curtis is hard to get into but free if you do.
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Mr. Bubbles
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: Rice University Reply with quote

Thank you!!!! I will check out those schools
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MrClean
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the Colburn School. In addition to it being an excellent school, outside of a student fee of about $3000, it is free. Tuition, room and board.

https://www.colburnschool.edu/conservatory/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW-CT5m5t14

Josh is currently associate principal in the Auckland Philharmonia and Michael is 2nd trumpet in the Jacksonville Symphony

Best,

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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rice, Colburn and Curtis will pay for your education, if you can get in. Keep in mind, Curtis has the lowest acceptance rate of any secondary education in the world -- not just music schools, but any school.

I wanted to go to Rice. Ultimately, I was rejected, but I had a positive experience with Barbara Butler. She'll kick your butt but she knows how to make a fine orchestral trumpet player.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject: college trumpe curriculum syllabus Reply with quote

Recently found this -
http://www.tamuc.edu/academics/cvSyllabi/syllabi/201320/22641.pdf

It is the 'learning plan' for college (Texas A&M) trumpet studio course.
It looks like it requires a very dedicated student to do all the practice needed to earn top grades. And perhaps a high level of 'natural ability' to progress at the expected rate.

My guess is that there would be a large 'wash-out' of students who couldn't keep pace with the course demands.

Jay
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JayV
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to tell you something I wish someone would have told me when I was 17.

Do you want to play full time for a living? If no, then go wherever you want, just don't spend too much and make sure you also major in something else, maybe something in technology like software development, data science, AI, or machine learning.

If yes: winning a livable orchestra job is much, MUCH more difficult than getting into any music school. There are only a handful of job openings like this per year in the entire country. You will be competing not only with people your own age but people 10, 20, 30 years older than you. Far too many jobs in this country are not only globally competitive but pay very poorly considering the skills required (like, less than $20k/year).

The teachers at Rice are far and away the most successful in the world at training their students to win American-style orchestral auditions. This is a crucial skill if you want to avoid enduring years of low pay and struggle as you try to figure it out yourself. Being successful at playing a screened orchestra audition is a distinct skill and they have figured out how to teach it to their students.

The schools mentioned in this thread (Colburn, Curtis): both excellent. Great teachers and some of the best students at both.

If I could re-wind the clock 10+ years I would have auditioned for Barbara Butler and Charlie Geyer. They weren't on my radar at the time either. I had never heard of them.

Some other "bests:" Juilliard, CIM, NEC

All that said, there are many fine teachers and excellent schools all over the country. Many of them can help you develop into a great musician. Ultimately, your long-term success depends much more on how smart and hard you're willing to work and what you're willing to sacrifice as opposed to which school you attend. I will say that I think you might make more useful connections if you go to a big school in a large city.
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you track who wins jobs, it seems like there’s often either a connection to Colburn or Butler/Guyer (formerly Northwestern and now Rice). If I was a young player that made it in to one of those schools, they’d be my top choice even over the more famous conservatives. That said, great players come from all over and the player you are at 17 doesn’t have to define the player you are at 30. There are also many happy and healthy ways to make a comfortable living as a musician that doesn’t involve winning a spot in the NY Philharmonic.
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breden
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a chance, check out Ryan Beach's podcast entitled - That's Not Spit, It's Condensation! There is an episode where he interviews Barbara Butler, and you may find it quite interesting and enlightening as she talks about her teaching, studio at Rice and her career as an educator. Really fascinating stuff. Highly recommended listening. Hope that helps somewhat.
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blownchops
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: college trumpe curriculum syllabus Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Recently found this -
http://www.tamuc.edu/academics/cvSyllabi/syllabi/201320/22641.pdf

It is the 'learning plan' for college (Texas A&M) trumpet studio course.
It looks like it requires a very dedicated student to do all the practice needed to earn top grades. And perhaps a high level of 'natural ability' to progress at the expected rate.

My guess is that there would be a large 'wash-out' of students who couldn't keep pace with the course demands.

Jay



This syllabus looked really similar to my college trumpet syllabuses. I went to a much smaller school in a much smaller state than Texas. I think that this level of expectation is becoming really similar across the board for colleges and universities. The wash out rate was pretty high for music majors at my school. It often came down to practice.

Going off of that, if you want to be in a top tier symphony having world renown educators and going to top schools would definitely help bolster your chances. However, your university experience is what you make of it. You can graduate from Eastman and do win no gigs or graduate from a small town school and win an audition, its all in the work that you do, and your future is based off of your dedication and practice time. There are several folk I went to school with that are playing professionally in all levels of military bands, symphonies and all sorts of other gigs. The common parallel is that they all worked their tails off and played their horns religiously. Your professor can take you where you want to go but only if you do the time in the practice room to get there.

Playing professionally is a tough life, and the trumpet really becomes your life. Its all fine and dandy until you have a bad chop day on the job and lose your gig. I am not trying to dissuade you, but to prepare you for what the future holds.

Look at other schools as well as Rice, there are tons of phenomenal trumpet educators all across the country, both famous and not. The key is how well you get along with them and how effective their teaching style is for you. Take lessons from every professor you can and find what works for you. Then go to that school and work your tail off.
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RobertCharlton
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

breden wrote:
If you have a chance, check out Ryan Beach's podcast entitled - That's Not Spit, It's Condensation! There is an episode where he interviews Barbara Butler, and you may find it quite interesting and enlightening as she talks about her teaching, studio at Rice and her career as an educator. Really fascinating stuff. Highly recommended listening. Hope that helps somewhat.

agree with you This is a very informative interview.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck being acepted into their program.

Just in case, I'd have a Plan B and Plan C in mind. And a similar set of plans should you find the career field of "professional trumpet performer" somewhat limited. Personally, I'd not make "Barista" one of those back up plans, but, WTH?

Again, good luck and all the best.
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm definitely not in the "become a band director if you can't hack it as a performer camp" -- but, consider the following: as a band director with 15 years experience and a master's degree I make more than many of the professors I had in college (including one who was in the President's Own). The flip side of that is my wife earned an MBA and one of her friends from the program started out making $80,000 a year in an entry level job.

I say all that to make this point: decide what type of life you want to have. Do you want music to be THE sole focus, A focus, or a great hobby that can add value to your life.

I love that Ryan Beach's podcast was referenced. I'm a regular listener because I love learning inside knowledge about almost any field (also, he holds the same position my college trumpet teacher held). I would encourage you to listen to the episodes where Ryan and his wife talk about how they have had to diversify what they are doing during COVID to make it through. Factor that in to your decision too.
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ricealumni95
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a graduate of the Shepherd School at Rice back in 95. Studied with Jim Wilt and Armando Ghitalla. Back then it was a superior school for trumpet performance. I received my Masters there.
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