Mouthpiece horn combination

[bent tubing]

Since I haven't had much luck with Bach mouthpieces I wonder if I should try a different brand of mouthpiece. I'm just a novice and have been playing my getzen 400 student trumpet with a Bach 7C. I was seriously thinking about trying a getzen 7C. My logic is that maybe just maybe the getzen trumpet will play and sound better since the two pieces of equipment are from the same manufacturer and therefore might be more compatible with each other. Does this make sense or is it just a waste of time and resources. Any insights would be greatly appreciated

[Lawler Bb]

Getzen 7C is essentially a Bach 7C, possibly with a different rim. Sideways move, IMO.

What are you looking for in terms of sound? Getting a mouthpiece that helps to produce the sound you have in your head will make your life easier.
_________________
Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/

[bent tubing]

I really don't have a clear objective as far as musical sound preference I'm mainly looking for an easier production of sound. Period.if that makes any sense at all I just thought that since I play a getzen horn that a getzen mouthpiece would make it possible to produce better results all around.a better match plus easier tone production

[Brassnose]

JK (Josef Klier) makes a much better Bach style mouthpiece than Bach. Much nicer rim, very easy to play, very competitive price, and they also do custom work. The USA models are their take on Bach, the Exclusive models are nice as well, but not Bach style.

An alternative option is the respective Yamaha pieces, but I don’t know those too well. Again much nicer than Bach, again without the nasty sharp inner rim that is typical of all Bach pieces I have played. IMHO YMMV etc.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[mr oakmount]

I own trumpets from various makers and spent lots of time finding the "right" mouthpieces for them. Guess what. None of the combinations are same company. I play a Yamaha on my Conn, a Breslmair on my Yamahas ...

What I would suggest: Go to a reputable retailer (or find a mail order service where you can order 8 mouthpieces and send back 7) and try a simple tune on as many mpcs as possible. One or two of those will shout "hello!" in terms of sound and feel.

But that is only step one. If a mouthpiece feels right, start checking intonation. If suddenly d2, e2 are irredeemably flat and g2 is unstoppably sharp, no joy.
It's also possible that a mpc feels great for half an hour and then you put in your old mouthpiece and you realize ... actually that sounds and feels better.

And sometimes you hit gold.

Here are some mpcs that often give joy, but it does not mean they are right for your horn-mpc-man combination. Just a starting point:

- Bach 5c, 3c, 1.5c, 1.25c Some love them, some hate them. Try.
Some companies like ACB offer "optimized" versions that can be amazing.
Denis Wick and JK have "American/USA Models" that are based on the above,
but with rims and/or bigger throat diametres that may feel more comfortable.

- Yamaha has "signature" mpcs that are great ... and stupidly cheap:
Try the Shew-Jazz or the Gould or the "standard" 14B, 15B, 16B (shallower)
or 14C, 15C, 16C (deeper).

- I would hesitate to suggest it yet, but you could jump in at the deep end and find your right combination of individual components with modular mpcs a la Warburton, Breslmair and the like. I found most of my "perfect" mouthpieces with Breslmair components, but then ... I live in the same country. Thomann mails them internationally. Quite expensive though and maybe not necessary for a novice.

Good luck and keep us posted of your progress!!!

[GeorgeB]

Maybe I'm just lucky but I get excellent results with one mouthpiece from all 7 of my trumpets, and the 1952 Selmer is a medium bore and the King Super 20 is a large bore. I even moved up to a larger rim size ( Wedge 66MD ) and even more recently I replaced the Wedge with the same size ACB MV3CS. Both these mp's do a fine job for me all around.

And yes, I tried matching up mp and trumpet but it was a waste of time.

George
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

[stuartissimo]

[Lawler Bb]

[kehaulani]

You don't sound very experienced to me (forgive me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, I would be conservative in my alternate choices. Bach 7C has a rim that's uncomfortable for some. Yamaha 11-style or Schilke 11-style are basically the same size but with a more comfortable rim.

Also, IMO, there's no one-size-fits-all rim edge and cup depth to a Bach mouthpiece. So, not getting along with a Bach 7C doesn't automatically mean that a Bach 9 or Bach 6 will not work. Same for Schilke and Yamaha.

Oh - and I wouldn't get distracted with trying to match up a same-brand horn and mouthpiece. I.e., I play a Purviance 5*K4, Schilke 12, Patrick Commercial with a Committee, Benge 3X and King Golden Flare in combinations depending on the job at hand.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet

[Andy Cooper]

Checking your Profile, I notice that you have had several different trumpets and tried many different mouthpieces over the years.

What results are you hoping for in a change of mouthpieces?

[kehaulani]

Are you talking to me or the OP?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg

_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet

[Proteus]

I happen to be quite content with my Schilke 15 for all-round playing, and use a Schilke 15B for big band (playing 2nd/3rd, *not* lead), but...

...we're all quick to look to our mouthpiece as a prime cause of whatever issues we believe we have, or -alternatively - what we believe we want or need to have...and an objective assessment of our mouthpiece has merit. But I always keep in mind a statement that I think is from "Pops" McLaughlin that I'm paraphrasing here as: "The variation you experience from your software is always greater than the variation from your hardware." An astute observation, IMO.

So if you're confident that your approach to the horn is already 100% optimized and there are no further gains to be realized, by all means turn your attention to your mouthpiece.
Cheers.
_________________
Bach 239 C
Kanstul 700
Getzen Proteus 907S Bb
Bach Strad 37 Bb (70s)
ACB Doubler flugel
Getzen Capri cornet

[jcubed901]

The short answer is “Yes, it’s possible”. A different brand mouthpiece, of the same size, might be a better match for your horn.

However, a different mp could also play about the same (or perhaps worse)
——
The longer answer is this …

First, I would recommend defining, as precisely as possible, what improvements you’re looking for. For instance, “I want my sound to be more X, similar to (insert player who has that sound)” or “I want the horn to feel more Y when playing this particular type of music “

This info will become your guiding compass, and will help steer you towards the right change faster

Second, embrace that finding the right change may take time. I recommend trying any new ‘set up’ for at least 1-2 weeks before declaring victory or deciding to continue the journey

Third, start with your technique and approach. What technical, or mental, changes could you change to achieve the desired sound? What exercises can help you develop that sound? (Try it out for 1-2 weeks…see if this gets you closer to your goal)

Fourth, try some mouthpieces out. The ‘guiding compass’ work from earlier will be valuable here too. If possible, talk with reputable brass shops and MP makers for a shortlist of mp recommendations. Order the recommendations, or try them in store. Ideally, audition any new gear for 1-2 weeks

Eventually, the newness of a different MP wears off, and the body gets used to the change. If you find that you still sound the same, and the horn feels the same, consider working more on your mental concept of sound + exercises that get you closer to the desired goal
——
Lastly, you’re right. Different brands will have different approaches to making the same size of mp

For instance, I recently tried a Bach 1.5B and a Greg Black 1.5B. Though the size is similar, these mps are built differently and they play differently.

For my horn and playing style, the Greg Black worked very well. However, the Bach didn’t balance well for me.

[Lawler Bb]

[Andy Cooper]

[kurth83]

There is no brand affinity with mouthpieces and horns AFAIK except maybe schilke where they get the desired gap when mated.

The common variations in mpc are rim shape, rim diameter, cup depth (and cup type V vs bowl), throat size, and backbore.

I also prefer a more rounded rim than bach. The tradeoffs with rounder rim (and rounded inside lip) are flexibility vs endurance (flatter rims = more endurance according to lore, and rounder rims = more flexibility). I prefer flexibility but generally can't go all the way to a really rounded rim like on a say CG personal, I need a little bit more meat there.

I have not yet played with backbore (I am about to do this with Jim R New screwable mouthpiece parts I think).

There are many 7 equivalent pieces out there, I would try deeper and shallower cups, and bigger throats. If you want to try different rim sizes try some bigger ones. A 7 to a 3 is a pretty big jump, other manufacturers have smaller intermediate increments.

Some manufacturers offer what I will call "sane" numbering systems, you can pick each of the above variables (rim size, rim shape, cup, throat, and backbore). I am not up to date on such manufacturers though. I have played Schilke most of my life and their lineup only partially fits in the sane category. And they want a lot of money ($250) for custom combinations they don't normally offer.

So finding a better mouthpiece is not easy, takes time and money - and some luck.

You said you wanted easier tone production, you will need to define easy. Easy as in it feels restrictive aka too tight and you want a bigger sound, or easy as in you have endurance problems? Or easy as in range issues?