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mricci
New Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2023
Posts: 3
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:36 am Post subject: Curry 3Z (no dot) > 5Z. |
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I've been playing on an older (90's) Curry 3Z (no dot) for years. I love it. It has a more v-shape bowl, etc.
Recently, I decided I needed something a bit smaller in diameter and ordered a 5Z. (with a dot) for a bit more endurance. After playing it, it is not similar at all. Definitely more of a bowl and a different bite.
Any advice on what product is similar to the old 3Z that I can then order a smaller diameter with?
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Bandcity
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Halifax, NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: Curry 3Z |
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Call Curry.
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Tim |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Curry 3Z (no dot) > 5Z. |
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| mricci wrote: | I've been playing on an older (90's) Curry 3Z (no dot) for years. I love it. It has a more v-shape bowl, etc.
Recently, I decided I needed something a bit smaller in diameter and ordered a 5Z. (with a dot) for a bit more endurance. After playing it, it is not similar at all. Definitely more of a bowl and a different bite.
Any advice on what product is similar to the old 3Z that I can then order a smaller diameter with? |
Some years back I had a brief exchange with Curry where I indicated that while I liked the Curry 3C. that it felt a little too big. I asked specifically if the 5C was like a smaller 3C and he assured me then that it is not. The curry 5C rim resembles the Bach 5C rim. I didn't ask about the cups. At that time he didn't volunteer that he made a smaller 3C.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Last edited by cheiden on Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ProAm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Wait a minute, you said 5Z. -- but there is no 5Z dot. The dot was added to the 3 size to mark the difference between the original 3 and the new, smaller 3 (both modeled after MT Vernons).
Did you really mean to say that you tried a 3Z. (dot)? |
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nieuwguyski
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 2349
Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ProAm wrote: | | Wait a minute, you said 5Z. -- but there is no 5Z dot... |
I will offer that my Curry 5Z, ordered from Mouthpiece Express, has a dot.
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ProAm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nieuwguyski wrote: | | ProAm wrote: | | Wait a minute, you said 5Z. -- but there is no 5Z dot... |
I will offer that my Curry 5Z, ordered from Mouthpiece Express, has a dot. |
Really? Then my knowledge of curry pieces is woefully out of date. Nevermind. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:15 am Post subject: |
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I also thought that there was only a dot on the 3 size. Either way, since the 5Z will have a Bach 5C style rim, it is never going to be a smaller 3 size. Also since the 5C has I believe a Bach 5C cup shape, the shallower Z version in the 5 size also probably does have a different cup shape to the 3Z.
Curry mouthpieces are like Bach, in that they have a different rim contour and cup shape for each size number.
Have you tried the current 3Z with the dot, as I would have thought that would be the nearest to what you are looking for?
Mark Curry also offers a mouthpiece scaling service:
From his website:
2. Scaling
Minimum charge $150.00
Perhaps you've liked the sound of a 1C but found it just too large to handle for all your playing. What if it was just 1% or 2% smaller? This is easily accomplished by scaling the mouthpiece down. the total cup volume may be reduced only by 1 or 2% but the diameter is also reduced. What this gives you is the 1C mouthpiece in a smaller size that you may be able to handle for all your playing. It will still have the sound qualities of the Standard 1C, but it will now be easier playing.
For example:
Standard 1C rim diameter=.680"
1C 99% diameter =.673" (@ 1.25C diameter)
1C 98% diameter=.664" (@ 5C diameter)
In this scaled example you can see how the cup proportions remain exactly the same. This is how the playing characteristics and overall sound quality of the scaled versions are nearly identical to the original.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
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ldwoods
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 1843
Location: Lake Charles, LA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:03 am Post subject: |
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The Curry site is a little confusing IMHO. I had purchased a used 3Z. on a whim and when I got it I noticed it had 2 dots (3Z..).
As best I can decipher the Curry site, all "new" 3 sizes have one dot to identify as the latest 3 design.
Additionally, any size, including a 3 could have a dot to identify a smaller\tighter backbore\throat.
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mricci
New Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2023
Posts: 3
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks all for the wisdom. Stupid me - of course the 5 is merely a different style than just down in size. Duh!
Which is probably why it feels weird as a massive 1C 25/24 player for legit and the old 3z for commercial.
I'll give the 5z a once over on the picc before reselling it to see what that feels like.
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mricci
New Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2023
Posts: 3
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| ProAm wrote: | Wait a minute, you said 5Z. -- but there is no 5Z dot. The dot was added to the 3 size to mark the difference between the original 3 and the new, smaller 3 (both modeled after MT Vernons).
Did you really mean to say that you tried a 3Z. (dot)? |
Ya, the 5z has a dot. I think I figured it out based on everyone's knowledge. I was wrongly expecting something else. 
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I'd suggest trying a 3Z. dot.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I'd honestly suggest trying a 3Z with a dot.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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nieuwguyski
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 2349
Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I may be hallucinating, but I seem to recall an older version of the Curry website mentioning that the "full" name of the Z cup was the Z. (Zdot) cup, but that it was usually shortened to just Z (parenthetical verbiage here simply to add space before the period). This would explain the existence of both the 5Z(dot) and the 3Z(double dot).
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1928
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ldwoods wrote: | The Curry site is a little confusing IMHO. I had purchased a used 3Z. on a whim and when I got it I noticed it had 2 dots (3Z..).
As best I can decipher the Curry site, all "new" 3 sizes have one dot to identify as the latest 3 design.
Additionally, any size, including a 3 could have a dot to identify a smaller\tighter backbore\throat. |
This, except that the dot identifying the tighter throat and backbore only applies to Z and XS cups manufactured after December 2008. (I suppose someone could custom order the tighter throat/backbore with a deeper cup, but it's not a standard offering.)
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| nieuwguyski wrote: | | I may be hallucinating, but I seem to recall an older version of the Curry website mentioning that the "full" name of the Z cup was the Z. (Zdot) cup, but that it was usually shortened to just Z (parenthetical verbiage here simply to add space before the period). This would explain the existence of both the 5Z(dot) and the 3Z(double dot). |
Hi nieuwguyski
You are not by any chance thinking of the ZM cup being shortened to just M on the mouthpiece.
i.e
From the Curry website:
ZM Cup: The Curry ZM cup (usually marked "M" on the mpc.) has proven to be an excellent "crossover" mouthpiece for those players who need to play both classical and jazz. Slightly shallower than the C cup, it's medium cup has enough tone to satisfy most classical needs, yet is bright enough to play parts in a big band.
Obviously this referring to the M cup rather than Z cup.
I've just looked up the reason for the dot on the end of the 5Z. that the Op has, and it is because it is a post 2008 model.
i.e.
From the Curry website:
Z and XS cups (December 2008) now come standard with a #28 throat and 50S backbore (High Compression format). These newer models have a dot (.) after the size, i.e. "5Z."
Backbores
Years of research has proved that that backbore volume, along with rates of taper and shape determine the overall blowing characteristics of a mouthpiece. Curry has designed the most balanced combinations for the great majority of players.
■BC Cups - #2 (“Schmidt” - style)
■B and C cups - #10 standard
■Star, DE, ZM-
■#X10 standard
■600 Series cups - #X10 standard
■Z and XS cups - #50S standard with #28 throat
Re.:
Again from the Curry website:
** Note: All Curry 3 rim sizes now have a dot (.) after the size. This is the current 3 rim profile offered since 2004. The older 3 rims (no dot) are available as special order only. The (.) dot rim has proved to be even more popular than the old 3 rim profile. This rim is also based off of an older Mount Vernon rim and is more compatible to today's 3 rim player looking to switch to Curry 3 rims.
Where does this dot come, after the 3 or after the cup designation? If after the cup designation, is a post 2008 3Z, a 3Z.. If so, it sounds like the OP doesn't want the smaller throat and more efficient backbore, and a 3Z. would be the one to try.
It is not really for me to say, but Mark Curry using a dot to indicate two different things seems kind of confusing to me. I wonder why he didn't use an * or # to designate a post 2008 Z mouthpiece.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| ldwoods wrote: | The Curry site is a little confusing IMHO. I had purchased a used 3Z. on a whim and when I got it I noticed it had 2 dots (3Z..).
As best I can decipher the Curry site, all "new" 3 sizes have one dot to identify as the latest 3 design.
Additionally, any size, including a 3 could have a dot to identify a smaller\tighter backbore\throat. |
I must have somehow this post, so the dot to indicate a post 2004 3 size does go on the end, making a post 2008 3Z, a 3Z..
Like has already been said, the second dot only occurs on the Z and XS cups and is because:
From the Curry website:
. Z and XS cups (December 2008) now come standard with a #28 throat and 50S backbore (High Compression format). These newer models have a dot (.) after the size, i.e. "5Z."
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:54 am Post subject: |
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It sounds to me that a 3Z with one dot, to indicate the slightly smaller diameter but with the pre 2008 throat and backbore is what the OP probably wants. Most likely this has been a special order items since 2008.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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